01 02:24:00 auchter i managed to scrounge together some parts for a temporary plan9 box
01 02:25:00 auchter i will be amazed if the hard drive gets through the install without failing
01 02:42:00 tommost How old is it?
01 02:46:00 auchter the drive? not sure, it's 4.03GB though.
01 02:46:00 auchter but it made it through the install
01 02:46:00 tommost ....well, that dates it pretty we..
01 02:46:00 tommost *ll
01 02:56:00 auchter so plan9 apparently hates the usb controller on this machine.
01 21:28:00 andy753421 auchter: so I was thinking the same thing about you mentioned about a standardized rating for the course list
01 21:28:00 andy753421 unfortunately, my version quickly became over complicated..
01 21:29:00 andy753421 mostly because I was trying to take into consideration whether there is alternative software, and whether the software is Free/Open Source Software or proprietary..
01 21:41:00 auchter yeah
01 21:41:00 auchter i'm going to start working on a template in a bit
01 21:44:00 auchter i was thinking something along these lines: http://freya.phire.org/testing/template.html
01 21:44:00 auchter obviously not complete yet, but it's a start
01 21:44:00 auchter different colors for rank
01 21:44:00 andy753421 looks good
01 21:57:00 auchter http://lug.phire.org/index.php/Sandbox
01 21:58:00 andy753421 Looks good
01 21:59:00 andy753421 if you don't mind, I might modify the template to use Wiki syntax instead of HTML tables
01 21:59:00 auchter no problem, that's what wikis are for
01 22:16:00 andy753421 does border-collapse only work on tables?
01 22:21:00 auchter yeah, it's only for tables
01 22:24:00 auchter i based the template off of wikipedia's ambox, by the way
01 22:24:00 auchter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Ambox
01 22:26:00 andy753421 hmm..
01 22:26:00 andy753421 how did they do 'class="ambox"' is that built into wikimedia?
01 22:28:00 andy753421 so for the description i made it so that if you don't type 'desc=' it still works
01 22:32:00 auchter ah, ok. the whole class thing confused me
01 22:33:00 auchter bullets no longer work in the description, though
01 22:33:00 auchter take a look at the Sandbox
01 22:34:00 andy753421 yea.. that's because media wiki sukcs
01 22:34:00 andy753421 when you use 'foo = bar' it deletes all the whitespace around 'bar' so it doesn't realize that the * in *bar is supposed to mean that it's a bullet.. or something
01 22:35:00 auchter it worked with the original template i put up
01 22:35:00 andy753421 hmm, ok i'll look into it
01 22:36:00 andy753421 maybe because I was trying to use dt/dd instead of tables
01 22:36:00 auchter hm, let me take a look
01 22:36:00 andy753421 and i think wikimedia tries to do do much magic with those
01 22:37:00 andy753421 :) that was easy
01 22:38:00 auchter ah, cool
01 22:38:00 andy753421 i just changed it from '<dd>{{{desc' to '<dd>n{{{desc..'
01 22:44:00 auchter ok, i converted the old page to use the new format... yay regexs
01 22:44:00 auchter anyway, i'm going to change the page now, then go through and do the rankings
01 22:44:00 andy753421 ok, it's going to kill the TOC, i'm working on that though
01 22:45:00 auchter ah, i see
01 22:47:00 auchter alright, finished with that
01 22:49:00 andy753421 *deleted some of the whitespace*
01 22:51:00 auchter bloody awesome
01 22:57:00 andy753421 Has anyone ever gotten dyknow to run in wine?
01 23:05:00 auchter i came across this while searching for DyKnow Linux
01 23:05:00 auchter http://vt.freeculture.org/wiki/Killing_the_tablet_requirement
01 23:06:00 auchter towards the bottom someone says it won't install under WINE
01 23:06:00 auchter on a side note, this freeculture thing sounds moderately interesting
01 23:08:00 andy753421 although their lego logo places the words in a very confusing order
01 23:08:00 andy753421 sortof like the robotics logo
01 23:08:00 auchter i think the robotics logo is worse...
01 23:09:00 auchter clockwise is similar to left-to-right
01 23:09:00 andy753421 true
01 23:22:00 auchter i'm curious at just how much information the dyknow client shares with the instructor
01 23:22:00 andy753421 it depends on the settings
01 23:23:00 andy753421 there's something by the same people that basically runs a vnc session on the client and then displays the images to the instructor, but rose doesn't use it
01 23:23:00 andy753421 other than that, i don't think it's to much
01 23:23:00 auchter ... or so they claim
01 23:24:00 andy753421 they dont, i actually helped set up the tablets when the first started using dyknow, it's fairly reasonable
01 23:24:00 andy753421 well, at least they didn't as of 1.5 years ago, and i dont think there would have been any reason for them to change
01 23:24:00 auchter ah, i see
01 23:26:00 auchter i think i'm going to submit a support ticket asking that dyknow be installed on the terminal servers
01 23:27:00 auchter that'd be even easier than virtualizing
01 23:27:00 andy753421 that'd be a good idea
01 23:27:00 auchter submit one as well, maybe there's a correlation between the number of requests and their response
01 23:53:00 tommost Has anyone here tried PlulseAudo?
01 23:55:00 auchter i looked into it at one point and didn't really see anything too useful
01 23:55:00 tommost I'm mostly interested in it in the hope that it will make audio in general non-quirky.
01 23:55:00 tommost I've had weird issues with my Myth box which make it mostly useless as a Myth box.
01 23:56:00 tommost Also, remote endpoints sound extremely useful.
01 23:56:00 auchter what kind of issues? i've never had any problems with audio playback
01 23:56:00 auchter remote endpoints, as in over network?
01 23:56:00 tommost Yeah.
01 23:57:00 auchter interesting... does it compensate for the latency of each remote node?
01 23:57:00 tommost So I could playback over my surround-sound system from my laptop, using the 5.1 card in my server.
01 23:57:00 auchter you may want to look into jack and netjack
01 23:57:00 tommost I would assume so--they seem pretty fanatical about latency--though I haven't really looked into it too much.
01 23:58:00 tommost Anyway, the problems that I've had have been with the combination of capture and playback.
01 23:58:00 auchter i see. i only ran a myth box for around a week, but it was without incident
01 23:58:00 tommost At one point, I couldn't hear audio from anything but MythTV and TVTime, but now I don't get any audio from either.
01 23:59:00 tommost Though I can play back music from other programs.
01 23:59:00 tommost And Myth has never seemed to properly record audio, in any case.
01 23:59:00 tommost And there have been weird latency issues.
02 00:00:00 tommost Maybe I'll be able to fix it once I get back, though... I've done a bit of reading on ALSA.
02 00:01:00 auchter does TV audio work fine with other viewers besides myth and tv tim?
02 00:01:00 tommost TV viewers? I don't have any installed.
02 00:02:00 auchter how about mplayer?
02 00:02:00 tommost I haven't tried it.
02 00:02:00 auchter that's what i always used with my tuner
02 00:03:00 tommost Trouble is, this box is in my dorm room... where I am not. So I don't really think that I can test it too well at the moment.
02 00:03:00 auchter that may be a slight issue
02 00:07:00 tommost I don't seem to be able to ping or ssh into either of my boxes. ssh and ping just hang (trying to resolve, I think).
02 00:08:00 auchter wasn't there supposed to be a power outage for the dorms or something?
02 00:08:00 tommost No, I don't think that it was supposed to affect Deming or any of the buildings in that area.
02 00:09:00 auchter "During the Christmas Break on Thursday, December 27th, there will be a power outage affecting the west side of the campus, specifically the HMU, White Chapel and residence halls. "
02 00:10:00 tommost Ah. I am wrong, then.
02 00:11:00 andy753421 http://www.rose-hulman.edu/Users/groups/Facilities/HTML/Rose%20Hulman%20Entire%20Book.pdf
02 00:11:00 andy753421 that has some interesting things in it, including a map of the power grid
02 00:12:00 andy753421 note: skinner's not connected to it =)
02 00:12:00 tommost Ah, Skinner. Which is more unique: Skinner or Deming?
02 00:12:00 auchter neither is Myers
02 00:13:00 tommost Are you sure that that's up to date? Aren't they changing things around?
02 00:13:00 andy753421 auchter: Meyers is
02 00:13:00 andy753421 tommost: yea, I don't know if it is anymore, it's form a year or two back
02 00:13:00 auchter well, not to the grid that got shut down, i mean
02 00:15:00 andy753421 tommost: Unique? architecturally Deming, otherwise maybe skinner?
02 00:15:00 andy753421 you can find some neat things browsing /afs/rose-hulman.edu/httpd/apache/htdocs :)
02 00:16:00 auchter i'm suprised they have made this public and aren't afraid of terrists using the info, considering we have a homeland security center at rose
02 00:16:00 tommost Homeland security center?
02 00:17:00 auchter http://www.rose-hulman.edu/chs/
02 00:18:00 tommost Hmph... isn't "Podcast Survey Winners" a bit out of place ;-)
02 00:19:00 andy753421 hehe, i think that was the thing where they got you to listen to some stuff and then take a survey,
02 00:19:00 auchter apparently they have security podcasts...
02 00:19:00 tommost Wait... we have a campus radio station? Since when?
02 00:20:00 auchter since a long time... it's in the bottom of BSB
02 00:20:00 andy753421 yea, wmhd
02 00:20:00 tommost What does it do?
02 00:20:00 andy753421 http://wmhd.rose-hulman.edu/
02 00:20:00 auchter music, talk, etc.
02 00:20:00 andy753421 um, it plays stuff on the radio :)
02 00:21:00 andy753421 it's always nice driving back to Rose and hearing the Mario sound track on the radio at 3:00am :)
02 00:21:00 tommost So they play random stuff?
02 00:22:00 auchter during the night it's mostly video game music, thanks to Guy
02 00:22:00 andy753421 I think you can go talk to them and they'll give you a time slot and you can do whatever you like
02 00:23:00 auchter there's actually a process you have to go through
02 00:23:00 auchter i should really do that some day, i was planning on doing it in the fall but never got around to it
02 00:23:00 tommost Neat... I was thinking that it might help break up the monotony of working in the SRC weight room.
02 00:23:00 tommost What would you want to do?
02 00:23:00 auchter i would like to do music, since there are really no good stations around terre haute
02 00:24:00 tommost What sort?
02 00:24:00 auchter mainly avant garde and classical
02 00:25:00 tommost That would be an improvement over all the Terre Haute stations that I am aware of.
02 00:25:00 auchter indeed. they're all pretty much gospel/country
02 00:25:00 tommost Yeah, or that painful WISU station.
02 00:25:00 auchter at least that's what i wake up to every morning down there
02 00:26:00 auchter i'm lucky enough to have a very good radio station here at home
02 00:26:00 auchter CBC2 out of canada, they actually have variety
02 00:27:00 tommost Nice. The only time that I have heard variety in Terre Haute was when the DJ decided to start playing one thing from every shelf late Saturday night.
02 00:27:00 auchter i hardly bother intentionally listening to the radio in terre haute
02 00:28:00 tommost I am forced to... SRC.
02 00:29:00 auchter ah, that would be a problem.
02 00:43:00 tommost I love the comment at the beginning of the WMHD HTML: <!-- IE hurts your children -->
02 00:44:00 tommost I'm getting serious mixed messages from the rest of it, though: XHTML doctype, all tags it CAPS :-o
02 00:46:00 auchter haha, i'm not that picky with my html
02 00:46:00 auchter my site passes validation with only a few warnings and looks horrible, and that's the way i like it
02 00:46:00 tommost Nor am I... XHTML is silly. HTML all the way! (I drool over HTML 5, though. <nav>!)
02 00:46:00 tommost Oh, I like pretty.
02 00:46:00 tommost But validation isn't necessary.
02 00:47:00 auchter but it's comforting
02 00:47:00 tommost Yes. I like to use it to catch misnesting of tags, etc.
02 00:48:00 andy753421 eh, i'm picky over xhtml validation
02 00:48:00 tommost But sometimes the validator complains about stupid things, like <input type="hidden"> not being at the same level as a block-level tag.
02 00:48:00 andy753421 if you use /real/ xhtml that is
02 00:49:00 tommost Yeah, *real* XHTML would be useful... embedded SVG, MathML... except for IE.
02 00:49:00 auchter i have no idea what i use, but it probably isn't good
02 00:49:00 auchter but it displays in firefox and links, which is all that matters
02 00:49:00 tommost You have <!DOCTYPE html SYSTEM>.
02 00:49:00 tommost The SYSTEM is unnecessary.
02 00:50:00 andy753421 yea, my reasoning is that if you use xhtml you should make it validate that way browser writers can use more efficient parsers
02 00:50:00 auchter but i like the mixed capitalization.
02 00:50:00 tommost Remove it and you have an HTML 5 doctype.
02 00:50:00 andy753421 tommost: does anything support html 5 yet?
02 00:51:00 auchter i only pretend to know HTML anyway. just like i pretend to know how to write shell scripts in bash
02 00:51:00 tommost In the sense that HTML 5 is backward compatible, yes.
02 00:51:00 tommost Of course, support for the new tags is nearly non-existent.
02 00:51:00 tommost Opera has support for WebForms 2.
02 00:52:00 tommost (It surprises me that they aren't putting that into Firefox 3.)
02 00:52:00 tommost Opera and Mozilla are working on support for <video>
02 00:53:00 tommost Apple and Nokia whined about making Theora a requirement, though, so that didn't happen.
02 00:54:00 auchter yeah, that annoyed me.
02 00:56:00 auchter i'm tempted to go back to using dillo for browsing.
02 00:56:00 tommost Why? Native UI?
02 00:57:00 andy753421 or, not slow :)
02 00:57:00 tommost That too...
02 00:57:00 auchter or, even better, both.
02 00:57:00 andy753421 wants an enlightenment browser
02 00:57:00 auchter heh, awesome, the gentoo ebuild has the tab patch
02 00:58:00 auchter i have mixed feelings about enlightenment
02 00:58:00 andy753421 how so?
02 00:59:00 auchter it strikes me as eyecandy over functionality a lot of the time
02 00:59:00 andy753421 that's a good point, i like it because it's very fast though
02 01:00:00 auchter now to port vimperator to dillo....
03 00:27:00 auchter andy753421: just curious, do you have the wiki backed up at all?
03 00:35:00 tommost Wow. PHP blows my mind. (In a bad way.)
03 00:36:00 auchter i think i've forgotten most of it... it has been well over a year since i last touched it
03 00:36:00 auchter anything in particular about PHP?
03 00:37:00 tommost The sheer messiness.
03 00:38:00 auchter that is the reason i stopped bothering with it
03 00:40:00 tommost Trouble is, it's hard to avoid.
03 00:43:00 auchter i haven't had a hard time, but then again i have a feeling you do a lot more web-related things than i do
03 00:44:00 tommost Yeah, that's where my interests lie.
03 00:44:00 tommost But IAIT makes it particularly difficult.
03 00:46:00 auchter i don't know about you, but i love old version of software
03 00:47:00 tommost And safe_mode?
03 00:47:00 auchter here i must confess to not knowing much at all about php
03 00:48:00 tommost safe_mode is a "security" restriction that doesn't actually effect much security, but does serve to make, say, proxying out to a Python script via system() difficult.
03 00:48:00 auchter ah, so that's why system() didn't work for me last i tried it.
03 00:55:00 tommost safe_mode appears to be off for groups: http://www.rose-hulman.edu/thorn/info.php
03 00:58:00 auchter they apparently don't trust students
03 00:58:00 auchter http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sJUDx7iEJw
03 00:59:00 tommost ROFL.
03 01:00:00 auchter i especially like the use of the laptop as a drum, haha
03 01:25:00 tommost Oh, pain. The server only has Python 2.2 installed (see same URL).
03 01:33:00 tommost What the heck... PHP supports backticks like a shell.
03 01:49:00 auchter indeed it does
03 03:20:00 auchter gah, i hate slashdot's new default crazy comment viewing system
03 03:43:00 andy753421 hmm..
03 03:44:00 andy753421 auchter: yea, the wiki database is backed up weekly, along with all my other files
03 03:45:00 andy753421 oh, tom left
03 03:45:00 andy753421 what default new comment system?
03 03:49:00 andy753421 auchter: although, thinking about it a bit more, i should update my backup scripts so that they're a little safer
03 03:50:00 andy753421 i think right now, if the wiki gets deleted/crashes right before the backup starts it would override the backed up data with the broken dada..
03 04:11:00 andy753421 wow, i'm impressed by how slow firefox 3 is
03 04:12:00 andy753421 about the url bar is terrible :(
03 13:18:00 auchter so the other day, pam_ssh or pam_ssh_agent apparently stopped working for some reason..
03 13:21:00 auchter strange thing is that i haven't (consciously) changed anything that would affect it
03 20:24:00 andy753421 auchter: did you check syslog?
03 20:26:00 auchter yeah, nothing really interesting there
03 20:27:00 auchter i modified pam_ssh_agent to execute: echo "test" > /tmp/log
03 20:27:00 andy753421 debug is turned on in pam?
03 20:27:00 auchter nothing was written, so i'm thinkin pam_ssh_agent was never called
03 20:27:00 auchter yup
03 20:28:00 andy753421 maybe a library go broken, (ldd /lib/security/pam_ssh* ?)
03 20:28:00 andy753421 have you tried reinstalling pam_ssh stuff?
04 00:45:00 auchter ldd output looks fine, and i already tried reinstalling everything
04 00:45:00 auchter i stopped using pam_ssh since it kind of seemed useless in the way i was using it
04 00:45:00 auchter but that shouldn't matter, pam_ssh_agent should still work by itself
05 01:09:00 auchter heh, looks like someone broke /afs/rose-hulman.edu/class/cs/ ...
05 01:17:00 auchter andy753421: you were talking about firefox 3 yesteday... have you given swiftfox a try?
05 01:37:00 andy753421 auchter: I had something called 'fasterfox' and I made some about:config tweeks to FX 2
05 01:38:00 andy753421 fasterfox was incompatable with FX3 though, so that might have been part of it
05 01:38:00 auchter swiftfox is now using firefox 3, and it seems pretty fast to me
05 01:38:00 auchter of course, vimperator doesn't work so i only used it for testing
05 01:39:00 andy753421 ok, it was the UI that seemed slow to me
05 01:39:00 andy753421 like the menu's and stuff
05 01:40:00 auchter ah, i see. i really didn't notice any slow down. i rather liked the url bar myself
05 02:44:00 auchter dmenu is quite versatile... fun command of the night: mpc add "`mpc listall | dmenu`"
05 21:01:00 tommost ls
05 21:01:00 tommost (oops.)
05 21:09:00 tommost Has anyone used QEMU's USB passthru support?
05 21:21:00 rr72 tommost~ that happens all the time
05 21:21:00 rr72 especially if using bitch or irssi
05 21:21:00 rr72 something in the same window as your term
05 21:22:00 tommost There's some incompatibility with Gusty--they disabled /proc/bus/usb in favor of /dev/bus/usb viz. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qemu/+bug/156085
05 21:22:00 tommost I've just applied the workaround an am about to try it.
05 21:25:00 rr72 gl
05 21:25:00 tommost Thanks.
05 21:25:00 rr72 most users at RHIT use *ubuntu?
05 21:26:00 tommost I thinks so. It's what's encouraged when you install for Operating Systems. There are several guys who use Gentoo, though.
05 21:27:00 tommost All of the official RHIT boxes run Fedora or RH Enterprise.
05 21:28:00 rr72 tommost~ CS dept. right?
05 21:29:00 tommost No. IAIT-maintained boxes.
05 21:29:00 tommost I'm not sure about the CS dept.
05 21:30:00 auchter all official unix boxes at rose are either fedora, rhel, or solaris
05 21:31:00 rr72 what is IAIT?
05 21:32:00 tommost Office of Instructional, Administrative & Information Technology
05 21:33:00 rr72 kk
06 01:20:00 tommost Well, I couldn't get USB passthru to work.
06 01:20:00 tommost I'm going to have to do a native XP partition.
06 01:21:00 tommost Unless...
06 01:22:00 tommost Has anyone gotten an XP image made in Qemu to boot in VMware? Mine just BSODs immediately.
06 01:36:00 auchter i couldn't get USB passthrough to work last time i tried either.
06 01:36:00 auchter what device in particular are you trying to use?
06 01:36:00 auchter also, have you tried asking in #qemu?
06 01:38:00 tommost The JTAG Spartan programmer cable thinger (for ECE 130).
06 01:38:00 tommost No, I haven't asked there.
06 01:38:00 auchter ah
06 01:39:00 tommost Looking at the instructions, it appears that I'll also need to set up a bunch of serial stuff too--it may just be easier to create a real partition and dd my XP image onto it.
06 01:40:00 auchter that's probably the best option, though the last time i installed Xilinx it asked me about installing cable drivers.. i wonder if the cable is supported by that
06 01:40:00 auchter (although i know your instructions probably say to use the digilent program)
06 01:40:00 tommost The error message that I got apparently indicates that the cable has more than one "interface," which it sounds like Qemu doesn't support.
06 01:41:00 tommost Yeah, they do. (Not that that would stop me.)
06 01:41:00 auchter it may be worth a try.
06 01:41:00 tommost But I don't want to install Xilinx under Linux--it's such a steaming pile of crap that I'd want to run it in an Ubuntu VM! ;-)
06 01:42:00 auchter it's really not that bad. the ise program (the gui) is admittedly horrible, but using makefiles and the command line programs works beautifully
06 01:43:00 tommost Really? I'd have expected it to just spew out all of the needless noise that it does in the GUI's console.
06 01:44:00 auchter oh, are you referring to the utterly unhelpful and often misleading error/warning messages?
06 01:44:00 auchter in that case, yeah, those are still present.
06 01:45:00 auchter but at least you don't have to work with the gui crashing and vomiting all over
06 01:45:00 tommost I suppose. It's kind of difficult to tell what it's trying to say.
06 01:45:00 tommost True.
06 01:46:00 tommost Does using it at the command line produce less, um, vomit in your working directory? Like, maybe just the source file, a config file, and the resulting bin?
06 01:48:00 auchter it produces signficantly fewer files... let me take a look
06 01:49:00 auchter yeah, it's not too bad...
06 01:50:00 tommost Is this the more recent version of Xilinx, e.g., gt 7?
06 01:50:00 auchter yes, 9.2i, i believe
06 01:51:00 tommost Hrmm...
06 01:52:00 tommost The real issue is that none of this saves me from the Cadence yoke. I could go to all this trouble, and I'd still need to VM Cadence.
06 01:52:00 auchter there is native cadence as well... how do you think i got through computer architecture? hha
06 01:52:00 tommost Really?!
06 01:53:00 tommost Where did they hide that?
06 01:53:00 auchter of course, and it may even be on addiator, if they finally fixed the licenses
06 01:53:00 auchter oh, the don't advertise it and it's a pain to get working, hold on one minue
06 01:53:00 auchter heh, the license still doesn't work on addiaotr.
06 01:54:00 tommost sigh
06 01:54:00 tommost Silly proprietary software.
06 01:54:00 auchter indeed
06 02:12:00 tommost Ick... it looks like it's a pain to get Xilinx working under 64-bit Ubuntu. I think that I'll just stick to Windows. I'm not going to use this as an SE after ECE 130, right?
06 02:28:00 auchter csse232
06 02:29:00 auchter after that, probably not
06 02:29:00 tommost Ah, okay.
06 17:54:00 tommost Are the Ethernet jacks in the dorms hooked to gigabit switches?
06 18:09:00 andy753421 tommost: no, they're 100 mb
06 18:09:00 andy753421 er, M
06 18:09:00 andy753421 er, Mb
06 18:37:00 tommost Yeah, that's what I figured.
06 19:07:00 Zeta_RHIT I'd heard that the switches themselves support gigabit, but it's disabled
06 19:08:00 Zeta_RHIT since the tons of 10/100 devices make things really un-fun
06 19:08:00 tommost Oooo... I smell a support ticket.
06 19:08:00 Zeta_RHIT like the printers and switches everyone has around
06 19:08:00 tommost Why would printers mess that up?
06 19:09:00 tommost Are the switches configured to propagate their broadcasts, or something? 'cause that'd be sill.
06 19:09:00 tommost *silly.
06 19:09:00 Zeta_RHIT I don't know enough about tcp/ip to speak intelligently on this topic, sadly
06 19:10:00 Zeta_RHIT as it was explained to me, it had something to do with frame problems and switches dropping packets like mad when they had to buffer a bunch to be sent to a 10/100 device
06 19:10:00 Zeta_RHIT since they come in at gigabit and leave at only 100mb
06 19:10:00 Zeta_RHIT switch's buffer fills, overflows, packets drop and a mess ensues
06 19:11:00 Zeta_RHIT hopefully that made some sort of sense
06 19:21:00 tommost It does.
06 19:22:00 tommost Still, why not filter broadcasts?
06 19:23:00 tommost Nah, nevermind.
07 00:53:00 tommost I'm marking ECE 130 as Linux incompatible, as Digilent Connect has no Linux equivalent and cannot be used from a Windows VM (I tried with both Qemu and VMware).
07 00:55:00 auchter yeah, that sounds fine. the only way i got through it was by making my partner do all the actual code downloading
07 00:55:00 tommost It's looking like that's how I'll have to go. I can't get Windows to install natively: it refuses to recognize the existence of my hard drive (really).
07 00:57:00 auchter heh, that's pretty weird. having someone else program it really isn't too bad, since the simulation gives you a pretty good idea about how it will work
07 00:57:00 tommost I suppose. The issue is that I have spent the last two days of my life attempting to get the software to work; I'm running out of time to actually do the project!
07 00:58:00 auchter ah, i see
07 01:29:00 shadghos1 WOOT my Eee will be here tormmrow
07 01:31:00 tommost Shiny.
07 01:31:00 shadghos1 verry
07 01:34:00 tommost Do you intend to use it as a machine itself, or primarily a thin client?
07 01:34:00 shadghos1 a notetakeing machean for class,
07 01:35:00 auchter i tried one out the other day, and i'm glad i didn't buy one
07 01:35:00 auchter it was amazing how fast it was, but i could not competently type on the keyboard
07 01:35:00 shadghos1 i have small hands
07 01:36:00 shadghos1 i tryed it for a few classes and it worked fine for me
07 01:36:00 auchter ah, well that's good. i was just saddened that it was too small for me... it is ideal in every other way
07 01:37:00 shadghos1 i like how small it it, and only the fan is a moveing part
07 01:40:00 shadghos1 ya, and i got a 4 gig mem card for the swap, and a 2 gig ram to upgrade it
07 01:40:00 tommost Does it run OOo or something lighter?
07 01:41:00 shadghos1 it will run ubuntu =P
07 03:05:00 octavious Adaptation is a GREAT movie
07 03:06:00 octavious what a crazy concept
07 03:32:00 octavious a self-referential film
07 03:33:00 octavious a movie about writing the movie
07 07:08:00 auchter octavious: hm, i remember starting it and never finishing it. perhaps i'll give it another go
07 13:34:00 andy753421 anyone know how to make wap_supplicant automatically run dhcpcd once it connects?
07 14:03:00 auchter phantom.csse is being very annoying.
07 14:03:00 auchter no BIOS options to enable virtualization, the svm flag is listed in /proc/cpuinfo, and yet kvm just says: "kvm: disabled by bios"
07 16:36:00 tommost What can I use to set it so that when I Alt + right drag on a window it resizes?
07 16:47:00 andy753421 tommost: depends on what window manager you're using
07 16:48:00 tommost Well, I'm using GNOME with Compiz Fusion.
07 16:48:00 andy753421 have you installed the compiz settings package?
07 16:48:00 tommost Yes.
07 16:48:00 tommost I've explored it pretty thoroughly; I haven't noticed anything relevant.
07 16:48:00 andy753421 I think I remember there beings something in there, but no clue where
07 16:49:00 andy753421 there's a section on 'window management' right?
07 16:49:00 tommost Yes.
07 16:50:00 andy753421 I think there's a resize plugin in there somewhere
07 16:51:00 andy753421 if not, i don't know, maybe it doesn't exist, or was taken out
07 16:51:00 tommost I don't see one.
07 16:55:00 tommost Oh, I found it. It's under "Uncategorized." It's called "Resize Window."
07 20:57:00 tommost I'm having some trouble connecting to the LDAP server over TLS.
07 20:57:00 tommost Was there some trick to getting it working with the GPG key exchange?
07 20:59:00 andy753421 tommost: it might be because rose signs their own certs
07 20:59:00 tommost Yeah, that's what it looks like: "Error in the certificate"
07 20:59:00 tommost So how did you get it working?
07 21:00:00 andy753421 what are you attempting to use it with? is this from PHP?
07 21:00:00 tommost No, Python.
07 21:02:00 andy753421 I added 'TLS_REQCERT allow' to my ldap.conf and it seemed to help
07 21:02:00 tommost /etc/ldap.conf or /etc/ldap/ldap.conf?
07 21:06:00 andy753421 tommost: your choice, i think
07 21:06:00 andy753421 just make sure you only have one
07 21:08:00 tommost Thanks! It works now.
08 00:49:00 kleinjt tommost: I was flipping through the IRC logs noticed you said the Windows installer would not detect your hard drive. I had a similar problem on my laptop (freshman model), I had to enable ATA emulation on the hard drive or some such SATA related setting in BIOS
08 00:50:00 tommost Ah, thanks a lot.
08 17:30:00 tommost So what happened to lug.phire.org earlier today?
08 18:01:00 andy753421 my roommate couldn't connect to our rooms wireless so he unplugged my server's ethernet cable
08 18:09:00 rr72 dumb fuck
08 18:09:00 rr72 oops
08 18:09:00 rr72 lol
08 18:24:00 tommost Heh.
08 18:29:00 rr72 ignorance or agorance?
08 18:29:00 andy753421 more along the lines of ignorance
08 18:29:00 andy753421 he's an ME so I don't think he realized that people actually use it
08 18:32:00 tommost Yay: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/01/08.html
08 18:41:00 auchter heh, i bet the reason rose is mentioned is because someone who graduated last year now works there
09 02:08:00 tommost PulseAudio works! It is beautiful.
09 02:12:00 tommost Now, if I can just convince the server that it actually has a 5.1 card in it I'll be able to play surround sound from my laptop.
09 02:35:00 auchter cool. anything particularly interesting about it?
09 02:36:00 shadghost_Eee 5.1 headsets are cool
09 02:37:00 auchter lies. normal headphone > all
09 02:37:00 shadghost_Eee 5.1 is cool in games
09 02:37:00 shadghost_Eee but the eee is cooler
09 02:37:00 auchter games are worthless
09 02:38:00 shadghost_Eee tf2 is not worthless
09 02:38:00 auchter except the fact that it costs ungodly amounts of money to play it, as well as selling your soul by having a horrible os installed natively
09 02:39:00 shadghost_Eee dule boot
09 02:39:00 auchter no.
09 02:39:00 shadghost_Eee xp
09 02:40:00 shadghost_Eee but i am talking on ubuntu
09 02:40:00 auchter windows is windows, and just like osx it is horrible
09 02:42:00 shadghost_Eee i guess i am just uesto both
09 09:47:00 auchter we need to get cups set up on phantom/voodoo under ubuntu yet
09 13:25:00 andy753422 auchter: was my computer down again?
09 13:27:00 auchter yeah, luglog disconnected and http://lug.phire.org didn't wrkk
09 13:29:00 andy753422 yea, i looked at loglogs debug messages in screen, looks like it was disconnected for about 2 hours..
09 18:28:00 andy753421 so I was looking at todays xkcd
09 18:33:00 andy753421 but i'm not really sure how it would work, wouldn't phase shifting the signal (180 deg) just cause destructive interference and just cancel out the noise?
09 18:33:00 andy753421 hmm, maybe 90 would work better
09 18:42:00 auchter well, if the phase shift the bass rhythms and overlay a song over it, it would work
09 18:42:00 auchter s/the/they/
09 19:41:00 Morasique i like this one too: http://www.evilmilk.com/pictures/Gay_Test891.jpg
09 19:41:00 Morasique er. sorry, this isn't the right window at all
09 19:56:00 auchter perhaps not the right window, but correct anyway
09 19:57:00 octavious eh, nothing wrong with elegance
09 19:57:00 octavious simplicity
09 19:57:00 auchter agreed, as long as it's not simplicity at the expense of configurability
10 02:25:00 auchter i just wrote the most ridiculous program i've ever written.
10 02:26:00 auchter i was too lazy/frustrated to come up with a recursive solution to this problem, so instead i wrote a perl script which generates a perl script to solve the problem, then it runs that
10 02:26:00 Morasique this could start a who's-written-the-most-ridicuous-program competition
10 02:26:00 auchter it could very wel.
10 02:26:00 auchter what's your most ridiculous program?
10 02:26:00 andy753421 i'm writing something is RoR, it's pretty ridiculous to begin with
10 02:27:00 andy753421 ridiculous in a bad way...
10 02:27:00 Morasique :D i keep trying to make myself learn ruby. but then i don't
10 02:27:00 andy753421 ruby=good, ruby on rails=stupid
10 02:28:00 auchter what are your thoughts on "perl on rails"?
10 02:28:00 andy753421 well, if it's modeled after ruby on rails, then it's going to suck just as much
10 02:28:00 auchter i'm actually not sure what it is, all i know is the bbc wrote it
10 02:28:00 andy753421 seeing as how ruby is the only good thing about RoR
10 02:28:00 auchter and i don't even know that much, either
10 09:30:00 octavious anyone giving a presentation today?
10 09:40:00 auchter someone is, but i forget who
10 09:40:00 auchter possibly tom
10 11:36:00 auchter heh, you've got to love the course catalogue here...
10 11:36:00 auchter ECE 530 Advanced Microcomputers 3R-3L-4C Pre: ECE 430 or ECE 331: Design of a microcomputer using a big honkin' microprocessor. Architecture and assembly programming. Integral laboratory.
10 17:14:00 auchter lug time.
10 17:15:00 andy753421 oh yea
10 17:15:00 andy753421 be right there
10 19:57:00 collinjc So umm... Does anyone in ECE361 know what we are supposed to do for this stupid CPR assignment?
10 21:53:00 auchter http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/gpl-killed-the-mpaa-star
10 22:46:00 Morasique andy753421: do you know how to fix that resolution problem that last group was having at the 372 presentations? i had the same problems, that's why we ended up not using my machine to present
10 22:47:00 andy753421 Morasique: you could rewrite xorg's configurations subsystem..
10 22:48:00 andy753421 other than that, I don't really know, xorg sucks at doing anything dynamically
10 22:48:00 Morasique ok. i figured there was an easier way i didn't know about, i'll have to mess with it one day. thanks
10 22:48:00 andy753421 supposedly it's going to be getting better with newer versions of xinput and RandR
10 22:49:00 andy753421 but yea, basically, input and output hot plugging is terrible
10 23:03:00 auchter ah, you've got to love x11
10 23:11:00 auchter also, angel needs to die and be replaced
10 23:12:00 Morasique too true
10 23:12:00 auchter a quick search shows moodle to look promising
10 23:13:00 Morasique but it's free software, the quality must be terrible. everyone knows this :)
10 23:15:00 auchter yeah... "Nothing of value is free."
10 23:18:00 auchter i'm afraid to even ask what an angel license costs
10 23:19:00 andy753421 .. the real problem would be getting everyone to learn something different
10 23:20:00 Morasique i'm curious how much angel costs, i bet claude knows
10 23:21:00 auchter i can't imagine it would be that difficult
10 23:22:00 Morasique it's not like the professors know ANGEL all that well, i've had to show professors how to change things before
10 23:22:00 auchter http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=58234
10 23:25:00 Morasique nice, ANGEL does support IMS. i'm all for it
10 23:27:00 auchter it would be interesting to set up a temporary server and maybe set up some example courses to demo it
10 23:28:00 Morasique that's not a bad idea really. i'm not sure who we'd have to beg to get them to switch, but ANGEL is pretty universally hated
10 23:30:00 Morasique they have ANGEL integrated with banner though, i'm not sure if moodle can do that kind of thing
10 23:30:00 Morasique they use it to export grades and that sort of thing
10 23:31:00 auchter yeah, a survey of orts would be helpful as well so people could compare to two
10 23:31:00 auchter i'd think that's mostly database related, though i'm not sure
10 23:41:00 povilus-desktop ucla will be implementing character limits on cpr soon
10 23:43:00 Morasique povilus: all my roommates and i have pooled our knowledge, and we have no idea what you're talking about :)
10 23:44:00 povilus-desktop ask beally what cpr is and how submissions are taken
10 23:45:00 povilus-desktop then thin about <!-- longwordhereveryverylong-->
10 23:45:00 povilus-desktop they limit you on words right now
10 23:46:00 povilus-desktop right now firefox is frozen on my submission
10 23:52:00 povilus-desktop awwww its only 200k
11 13:26:00 Morasique this is handy, now i can check if tboneuls is on my floor so i know if i need to avoid him: nmap -sP 137.112.138.0/24 | grep abaty
11 13:26:00 Morasique i need a cron job that automatically alerts me when he shows up
11 13:50:00 TBoneULS somehow i suspuect that won't work
11 16:01:00 TheRoot hey auchter, are you in the lab?
11 16:01:00 TheRoot or for that matter, auchter_
11 16:11:00 auchter TheRoot: no, i'm not
11 16:27:00 TheRoot ah well. I'm playing around with pendrive linux and want some help adding networking.
11 17:24:00 andy753421 Morasique: http://andy753421.ath.cx/temp/where.rb
11 17:24:00 andy753421 a little more efficient than mapping the subnet ;)
11 17:28:00 auchter has anyone gone about mapping out the subnets and their physical locations?
11 17:28:00 andy753421 I know a few of them
11 17:28:00 auchter the only one i know off the top of my head is 104 for the cs lab...
11 17:28:00 andy753421 IAIT folks have a list of them all, but i've never been able to get a copy
11 17:29:00 andy753421 you can get a lot of the IP's for res halls based of the IP of their printer
11 17:30:00 auchter if they don't have two subnets... i think BSB does
11 17:35:00 Morasique i think i have a list of all the reshalls
11 18:56:00 collinjc Does anyone have any idea how I can burn a .toast image file to a CD?
11 19:02:00 Morasique i've never tried, but rumor has it you can rename it to an iso and use an iso burner in most cases
11 19:05:00 collinjc Well I checked with file and it shows up as being very much apple formatted, so I wasn't sure if that would work or not.
11 19:05:00 collinjc I suppose it is worth a try, however.
11 19:05:00 andy753421 you could try iso mounting it first
11 19:06:00 collinjc Good idea.
11 19:06:00 auchter mmm... burnt toast
11 19:07:00 collinjc Nope. That gives an error that is made up of a whole bunch of random letters.
11 19:08:00 collinjc So it seems as though renaming it will not work.
11 19:17:00 Morasique i've found a couple references to windows programs that can convert it to an iso if that helps, i can't find a linux way
11 19:18:00 collinjc What are they?
11 19:18:00 collinjc At the moment, I'm trying mkisofs under Linux.
11 19:20:00 auchter i saw something mentioning that 7zip can open toast files, but i don't know about that
11 19:21:00 Morasique iso buster and magiciso can both supposedly do it
11 19:22:00 collinjc I couldn't get iso buster to open the file. And I don't think 7zip will work since I do want to preserve the file format so that this stupid mac will still be able to read it.
11 19:24:00 Morasique the iso buster way is supposed to be "extract raw but convert to user data", it makes a .tao file that you can rename .iso
11 19:25:00 auchter i'd just try burning it with cdrecord
11 19:25:00 collinjc Yeah, but I can't even open the file with it so I am not presented with that option. Oh well. I may have to break down and check ebay for an OS 9.1 CD.
11 19:25:00 collinjc Is cdrecord a command line interface?
11 19:26:00 auchter yeah
11 19:26:00 collinjc Okay.
11 19:26:00 Morasique if you got it on a mac could the mac convert it?
11 19:26:00 auchter cdrecord dev=ATAPI:0,0,0 -speed=24 driveropts=burnfree file.toast
11 19:26:00 Morasique there's one in the cs lab
11 19:27:00 collinjc Morasique: It's possible, but I haven't got the slightest idea how to do file conversions on that thing.
11 19:28:00 auchter so this is an os 9 image you're trying to burn?
11 19:29:00 collinjc Yes.
11 19:29:00 auchter any reason at all for wanting that? i can't imagine it'd be too useful
11 19:30:00 collinjc I'm attempting to get an old mac up and running. The problem that I have run into, however, is that it has to have an existing copy of OS 9 installed in order to allow me to put Linux on it.
11 19:31:00 auchter ah, i see. that's really strange that it requires that...
11 19:31:00 collinjc I couldn't agree with you more.
11 19:32:00 auchter apple designers == greatness
11 19:33:00 collinjc But it refuses to boot from any disc I put in there, so a bit of poking around on the internet told me that it has to have OS 9 first.
11 19:33:00 collinjc Because it will actually happily boot from an OS 9 CD.
11 19:34:00 auchter yeah, i'd just burn the toast image with cdrecord. worst case is you're out a cdr
11 19:34:00 collinjc Which isn't critical at this point since I'm already out 6 from other failed methods.
11 19:43:00 collinjc cdrecord didn't work either. Oh well. I'm going to start looking into other methods of getting it install without OS 9.
12 01:04:00 auchter Blazeix: SHM is implemented in the shell and is used for passing values
12 01:40:00 Blazeix auchter: awesome. Hopefully there's some stuff for us to do tomorrow!
12 01:43:00 auchter printFatEntries still needs to be done
12 01:43:00 auchter i also cleaned up the existing code some, and split up shell.c into a few different files
12 02:02:00 andy753421 auchter: printFatEntries: struct boot_sector;
12 02:03:00 andy753421 er, struct boot_sector bs;
12 02:03:00 andy753421 fread(&bs, sizeof(struct boot_sector), 1, fd);
12 02:03:00 andy753421 printf("...", boot_sector->whatever);
12 02:03:00 andy753421 that's totally the easiest function to implement
12 02:04:00 andy753421 as long as you do it the way they tell you to
12 02:05:00 andy753421 oh wait, i totally had the wrong one
12 02:06:00 auchter haha, yeah, i was going to say...
12 02:06:00 auchter printBootSector is already done. printFatEntries should be easy as well
12 02:06:00 auchter as far as extra commands for fun, i've implemented echo and yes
12 02:07:00 andy753421 can you use them to write to the filesystem?
12 02:07:00 auchter you mean io redirection?
12 02:07:00 andy753421 yea
12 02:08:00 auchter nope, not yet. is that a requirement for a later part of the project?
12 02:08:00 andy753421 mkdir is, not sure about write
12 02:08:00 andy753421 don't think so
12 02:12:00 andy753421 http://andy753421.ath.cx/temp/run_command.c
12 02:12:00 andy753421 my original version, if the command doesn't exist search $PATH for it and execvp it :)
12 02:14:00 auchter i was going to do that, but i'm a bit too lazy right now
12 02:14:00 andy753421 heh, yea, it's actually pretty useless because it can't actually access anything from the filesystem
12 02:34:00 auchter and by the way, that print code doesn't really work for print boot sector, since everything's 12-bits
12 02:37:00 andy753421 eh? it works for the boot sector, the fat entries are the only things that are 12 bit
12 02:39:00 andy753421 i don't suppose anyones over around the CS labs?
12 02:42:00 andy753421 fyi, i'm installing distcc on phantom.cs
12 02:43:00 auchter awesome. i was around the labs about an hour and a half ago
12 02:44:00 andy753421 ok, phantom's booted to ubuntu, but voodoo seems to be on windows
12 03:07:00 andy753421 hmm. distcc's not working on phantom, might be because it's using gcc-4.1-amd64
12 03:20:00 auchter hmm
12 03:25:00 andy753421 http://gentoo-wiki.com/TIP_AMD64-x86-distcc seems to make it work
12 03:25:00 andy753421 although, it seems a little unstable
12 03:33:00 auchter is it up right now? distcc doesn't seem to be distributing it...
12 03:33:00 auchter well, to phantom.cs that is
12 03:33:00 andy753421 auchter: it's working for me
12 03:33:00 andy753421 is distcc distributing it anywhere?
12 03:34:00 auchter this is what happens when you forget to source your bashrc after changing it...
12 03:34:00 andy753421 ah, not compiling from portage?
12 03:35:00 auchter the only box i have on the rose network is freya, which is running crux
12 03:35:00 andy753421 ok
12 06:36:00 andy753421 anyone online?
12 11:15:00 andy753421 I think emerge just did something stupid..
12 11:15:00 andy753421 a /lib # ls -l libm.so.6
12 11:15:00 andy753421 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 12 2008-01-12 15:29 libm.so.6 -> libpwdb.so.0
12 12:45:00 rr72 andy753421~ that's redundant :-P <andy753421> I think emerge just did something stupid..
12 12:53:00 tommost Google just turned off IMAP on my Gmail account!
12 13:15:00 auchter bastards.
12 13:16:00 auchter mine's still on
12 13:17:00 tommost Yeah, it stinks. Especially after I moved all of my mail into it.
12 13:20:00 auchter yeah, i'm pretty wary about using google products, especially exclusively
12 13:21:00 tommost Yeah, I decided long ago not to trust them. I mainly moved to IMAP as a part of my Linux migration--otherwise, I'd have to deal with those damn mbox files.
12 13:25:00 auchter i only use imap as well
12 13:25:00 tommost Did you set up your own server?
12 13:26:00 auchter no, but i have been considering the idea. the problem is it's hard for me to guarantee that the server will stay up (power/network outages)
12 13:27:00 tommost Yeah, that's why I haven't bothered.
12 13:27:00 auchter the computer that i'm on has been pretty stable, it hasn't been off since i moved it
12 13:27:00 auchter and just a few hours of connectivity loss
12 13:28:00 tommost Where is it?
12 13:28:00 auchter in the robotics work room
12 13:29:00 tommost Yeah, that explains it. And it has a UPS too, right?
12 13:29:00 auchter actually, it doesn't right now. there is a UPS sitting unused underneath it, but i don't want to shut it down to use it...
12 13:29:00 tommost :-)
12 13:30:00 tommost Yeah, mine are in my room... and apparently Speed has some issues with breakers getting tripped.
12 13:31:00 auchter hmm, i never had that problem in BSB last year
12 13:31:00 tommost Nor did I in Deming before yesterday.
12 13:32:00 auchter ah, i see
12 13:35:00 auchter well i should probably go find something to eat since i just woke up then
12 13:36:00 tommost Yes. Go forth and metabolize.
12 16:58:00 auchter andy753421: i booted voodoo into ubuntu
12 16:59:00 Morasique so you did. (it's about a foot behind me)
12 17:00:00 auchter didn't know if you wanted to install distcc on it as well
13 00:43:00 TBoneULS collinjc: ask me tomorrow, i might have some mac disks you can use if you need to
13 03:12:00 tommost Has anyone gotten suspend/hibernate to work on the nw8440s?
13 03:13:00 auchter tommost: i had hibernate working last year, but i could never get suspend to work
13 03:13:00 auchter i gave up on hibernate as it doesn't actually save me any time
13 13:04:00 rr72 WTF?! Damn school never sent my transcripts
13 13:06:00 rr72 got a fucking second letter, first one was inviting me to open house thing and second was telling me my school never sent scripts
13 16:32:00 auchter alright, so i'm having some problems with some C
13 16:34:00 auchter so the shell i'm working on keeps crashing and showing the memory map and backtrace
13 16:35:00 andy753421 segfault?
13 16:35:00 auchter i've narrowed it down to the place where it's freeing a two dinmensional array
13 16:35:00 auchter for (li = 0; li < argc; li++) {
13 16:35:00 auchter free(argv[li]);
13 16:35:00 auchter argv[li] = NULL;
13 16:35:00 auchter }
13 16:35:00 auchter free(argv);
13 16:36:00 auchter argv = NULL;
13 16:36:00 auchter it crashes on the free(argv);, but only when argc >= 6
13 16:37:00 auchter i can't see anything obviously wrong with that, but i may have missed something. everything being free()'d has definitely been malloc()'d
13 16:39:00 andy753421 auchter: could I get a copy of the rest of the code?
13 16:39:00 andy753421 that looks like it should be fine
13 16:41:00 auchter http://pastebin.com/d5ae56e05
13 16:41:00 auchter relavent sections
13 16:41:00 auchter ARGLEN = 256, ARGVLEN = 16
13 16:44:00 andy753421 sizeof(char *)
13 16:44:00 auchter haha, that would probably be an excellent idea. can't believe i missed that
13 16:45:00 auchter yup, works great. thanks
13 19:39:00 tommost How do you launch Cadence on Addiator?
13 19:41:00 auchter well, if they didn't suck at licensing:
13 19:41:00 auchter setenv PATH "/afs/rose-hulman.edu/@sys/cadence/IUS61/tools.lnx86/bin:$PATH"
13 19:41:00 auchter then nclaunch
13 19:44:00 tommost I just need it to check my Verilog syntax.
13 19:48:00 auchter well, that will work
13 19:49:00 auchter see the Cadence IUS article on the wiki
13 19:49:00 tommost Ah, thanks.
13 20:33:00 tommost You can make Cadence work with setenv CDS_LIC_FILE 5280@rhit-lmgrd1.rose-hulman.edu
13 20:37:00 auchter tommost: awesome, i didn't know that
13 21:07:00 auchter flamewar starting question of the night: why doesn't java have "goto"?
13 21:08:00 tommost Let's start with a real question: why doesn't Java have functions?
13 21:16:00 tommost And why isn't Java functional? ;-)
13 21:18:00 auchter haha, nice pun.
13 21:18:00 Blazeix It cuts down on death by velociraptor.
13 23:44:00 auchter haha, anyone on addiator?
13 23:44:00 auchter someone just wall'd this:
13 23:44:00 auchter Broadcast message from germanpm (pts/19) (Sun Jan 13 23:43:02 2008):
13 23:44:00 auchter fuck os
13 23:45:00 andy753421 looks like mdbaker's logged in ;)
13 23:46:00 auchter this should be good, haha
13 23:46:00 andy753421 and inlow, whoever that is
13 23:46:00 andy753421 hopefully they won't disable write..
13 23:46:00 auchter yeah...
13 23:46:00 auchter the dmesg output is fun, haha
13 23:47:00 andy753421 haha
13 23:47:00 octavious wow. big assignment due in the class?
13 23:48:00 andy753421 the first fat12 milestone i believe
13 23:53:00 octavious ahh.
13 23:58:00 auchter it's really not that bad...
14 00:01:00 auchter andy753421: inlow is apparently a math prof. a pretty cool one at that, judging by the fact he's running "vim exam1_1.tex"
14 01:35:00 tommost Has anyone had trouble printing PS to the Speed printer?
14 01:57:00 Morasique certain PDFs have caused problems in the past, it might be related to that
14 01:58:00 tommost I have a PS of a waveform diagram that I produced with Cadence on Addiator. The diagram part of the diagram disappears, and the two other bits get separate pages.
14 01:59:00 Morasique oh. no then, some PDFs just seem to lock up the printer, it reads them as infinite pages and never prints
14 02:04:00 auchter tommost: try using ps2pdf and print that
14 02:41:00 tommost Thanks. That worked.
14 08:34:00 andy753421 you might also be able to use ps2ps..
14 08:54:00 auchter has anyone written an auto-registration script yet?
14 08:54:00 andy753421 auto registration?
14 08:55:00 andy753421 oh, to sign up for classes once they become available?
14 08:55:00 auchter yeah, like you give it a list of CRN numbers
14 08:55:00 auchter exactly
14 08:55:00 andy753421 not that I know of
14 08:55:00 andy753421 I don't think I would trust it, and I wouldn't want to DOS the server to much
14 08:56:00 auchter with some rate limiting it shouldn't be too dangerous
14 08:56:00 auchter i was thinking just something that at the correct time, enter in the CRN numbers once
14 08:57:00 andy753421 yea, it would be useful for 8:00 registrations
14 08:57:00 auchter or 8:30... grr...
14 08:57:00 andy753421 sometimes the server ties out and stuff like that
14 08:58:00 andy753421 i've got to register at 1:00 but I have to write a lit review and study for a quiz before then, and I haven't actually looked at my classes at all yet..
14 08:59:00 auchter i don't register until wednesday, unfortunately
14 12:07:00 auchter so, i'm about to send in my registration for the digilent competition... anyone interested in doing a flac decoder?
14 12:18:00 andy753421 er, maybe,
14 12:19:00 andy753421 it sounds interesting, but I don't know if i would actually have time to work on it
14 12:24:00 auchter i don't know if i will either
14 12:26:00 andy753421 anyway, time to go fail a quiz ;)
14 16:11:00 kleinjt cream of wheat and oatmeal is a poor combination
14 16:23:00 auchter kleinjt: butter lettuce, balsamic vinegar, and olive oil is a delicious combination
14 16:28:00 Morasique is anyone using sshfs to connect to afs? i'm trying it, but it stops after i enter my password and never finishes
14 16:29:00 auchter Morasique: works fine for me, though i am using public key login
14 16:44:00 Morasique auchter: i switched to public key login, and ssh uses it fine, but sshfs still prompts for my password. any idea why?
14 16:51:00 andy753421 might be unrelated, but I haven't been able to sftp into addiator at all for a while
14 16:56:00 auchter do you have anything beind echoed upon login? that seemed to mess things up for me with sftp
14 16:56:00 auchter s/beind/being/
14 16:57:00 andy753421 oh, apparently execing zsh from .cshrc breaks sftp
14 16:57:00 auchter ah, fun.. yet another reason to just use tcsh on those machines until they give us chsh
14 16:58:00 andy753421 anyone know how to tell from a .cshrc if you're running from ssh or sftp?
14 16:58:00 auchter is there an environmental variable set perhaps?
14 16:59:00 andy753421 I would guess so, but i'm not sure what
14 17:01:00 Morasique will TERM work?
14 17:02:00 andy753421 perhaps, it seems '$command' gets set to /usr/libexec/openssh/sftp-server
14 17:04:00 Morasique excellent. andy, i had the same thing you did (running zsh from cshrc), it was what was breaking sshfs
14 17:04:00 Morasique thanks
14 17:05:00 auchter it seems that LS_COLORS doesn't get set when i sftp in, though it does when i use SSH
14 17:07:00 andy753421 so, anyone know how to write tcsh scripts?
14 17:07:00 andy753421 sounds like a presentation to me ;)
14 17:08:00 auchter i know how to do if-then, but that's about it.
14 17:10:00 auchter additionally, why isn't the mail command on addiator not tied into our mailboxes...
14 17:10:00 andy753421 ough, stupid GNU extensions have made me lazy
14 17:14:00 andy753421 if ( ! -z "$TERM" ) then ; exec zsh ; endif
14 17:14:00 auchter additionally, it seems that addiator is using ipv4 mapped ipv6 addresses
14 17:14:00 auchter not a bad plan...
14 17:15:00 andy753421 auchter: why do you say that?
14 17:15:00 auchter or at least ssh is using ipv6... SSH_CONNECTION=::ffff:24.172.161.114 58391 ::ffff:137.112.8.14 22
14 17:15:00 auchter yeah, ifconfig shows just pure ipv4, so disregard that
14 17:49:00 andy753421 i just had an amazing idea
14 17:49:00 andy753421 i think it's time to set aalib/libcaca to work with mutt
14 18:02:00 auchter to what end? just image display?
14 18:04:00 andy753421 yea, pretty much
14 18:05:00 andy753421 not sure if it will be much good though, since most of the times when I'd want to see images it would be because someone decided rasterizing text into a .bmp is a good idea
14 18:10:00 auchter i don't understand why people insist on doing that. it makes it more difficult to read and nigh-impossible to search
14 18:10:00 auchter we need ocrgrep
14 23:25:00 tommos1 andy753421: You there?
14 23:39:00 andy753421 yo
14 23:40:00 tommos1 Did you get my messages earlier?
14 23:40:00 TheRoot spies.
14 23:42:00 andy753421 tommos1: not that I'm aware of
14 23:42:00 tommos1 Now?
14 23:42:00 andy753421 um, nope?
14 23:42:00 andy753421 how's this message supposed to be getting to me?
14 23:43:00 tommos1 Egh. Supposed to be a private message.
14 23:43:00 tommos1 Nevermind.
14 23:43:00 tommos1 Anyway, what's with this "list" thing?
14 23:43:00 tommos1 It's not ordered.
14 23:44:00 andy753421 no? i though i said it wasn't
14 23:44:00 tommos1 Well, yes, but that's weird. It's not a list.
14 23:45:00 tommos1 It's some sort of linear-time set.
14 23:45:00 andy753421 yea, pretty much
14 23:45:00 andy753421 i should probably rename it and/or make it ordered
14 23:45:00 andy753421 do you need it ordered for any reason?
14 23:45:00 tommos1 No, it just confused me.
14 23:46:00 tommos1 But before you do any real work on it, talk to Rob.
14 23:46:00 andy753421 ok
14 23:46:00 andy753421 yea, i just took the simplest approach to implementation
14 23:46:00 tommos1 I'll say. :D
14 23:47:00 andy753421 or in other words 'I optimized for space when using low values of n', hehe
15 00:44:00 andy753421 hey tom, just to be a jerk, i think it's 'Dell Precision M70'
15 00:49:00 tommos1 Done.
15 00:50:00 tommos1 It was prettier the other way, though.
15 00:51:00 tommos1 sigh
15 00:51:00 andy753421 prettier?
15 00:51:00 andy753421 got something against capitol M's?
15 00:52:00 tommos1 In this case. It's just line lowercase hex--easier to read.
15 00:52:00 auchter i'm so lost right now
15 00:52:00 tommos1 Check the wiki.
15 00:52:00 auchter crazy edits going on all over the place
15 00:53:00 tommos1 I got bored.
15 00:53:00 tommos1 The next thing I did was try to figure out how to build some robotics code into a shared library so that I could write unit tests in Python.
15 00:53:00 tommos1 Me being bored is a bad thing.
15 00:54:00 auchter so i was intrigued by python today.
15 00:54:00 andy753421 oh, i've got sample code for hat if you like
15 00:54:00 auchter and i may just have to learn it now
15 00:54:00 tommos1 The ctypes module is really cool.
15 00:55:00 tommos1 >>> from ctypes import *
15 00:55:00 tommos1 >>> libc = CDLL("libc.so.6")
15 00:55:00 tommos1 >>> strchr = libc.strchr
15 00:55:00 tommos1 >>> strchr.argtypes = [c_char_p, c_char]
15 00:55:00 tommos1 >>> strchr.restype = c_char_p
15 00:55:00 tommos1 >>> strchr("abcdefghijklmnop", 'd')
15 00:55:00 tommos1 'defghijklmnop'
15 00:55:00 auchter namely, yield seems really really cool to me
15 00:56:00 tommos1 Mmm... yes. It is beautiful.
15 00:58:00 tommos1 with is handy, too.
15 01:00:00 auchter i'll have to look into it again later, now i have to study for my DISCO exam
15 01:03:00 tommos1 Andy: were you talking to me?
15 01:04:00 andy753421 oh, yea, did you get it to compile?
15 01:04:00 tommos1 No.
15 01:05:00 andy753421 'gcc -shared -nostartfiles -fpic -o list.so list.c' should work
15 01:06:00 andy753421 the tricky part is using dl{open,error,sym,close} but if you're using python you probably don't have to deal with that
15 01:06:00 tommos1 Right.
15 01:06:00 tommos1 How do I put this in the Makefile?
15 01:07:00 andy753421 list.so: list.c list.h
15 01:07:00 andy753421 gcc $(CFLAGS) -shared -nostartfiles -fpic -o list.so list.c
15 01:08:00 tommos1 Thanks.
15 01:08:00 andy753421 or you could make it generic and use:
15 01:08:00 andy753421 %.so: %.c %.h
15 01:08:00 andy753421 gcc $(CFLAGS) -shared -nostartfiles -fpic -o $@ $<
15 01:10:00 auchter so you decided on GNU make instead of Mk?
15 01:15:00 andy753421 yea
15 01:16:00 andy753421 'cause it was installed
15 01:16:00 auchter portage makes p9p so easy though...
15 01:16:00 auchter anyway, i'm going to give it a try sometime and see how i like it
15 01:17:00 andy753421 it doesn't seem all that different than gnu make
15 01:19:00 auchter the ability to parallelize it seems cool, as well as the P attribute
15 01:19:00 andy753421 what's the P attribute to?
15 01:20:00 andy753421 and can't you parallelize make as well? (make -j?)
15 01:20:00 auchter lets you use the result of a command as instead of the access time to decide when to recompile
15 01:20:00 auchter heh, forgot about that.
15 01:22:00 andy753421 also, we should probably talk to rob/time, since we just started writing everything in C instead of c++..
15 01:23:00 tommos1 Yeah, I was talking to Rob and he was a bit annoyed.
15 01:23:00 andy753421 hm..
15 01:24:00 auchter http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/57643/focus=57918
15 01:24:00 andy753421 tommos1: well, we haven't really done much, and i think most of this code should be pretty easy to port to 'classes'
15 01:24:00 andy753421 and/or use stdlib instead of list
15 01:25:00 andy753421 auchter: heh, yea that's a nice post
15 01:25:00 tommos1 Yeah. However, if we're going to do it in that sort of language, why not use something with garbage collection, like D.
15 01:26:00 andy753421 tommos1: because nobody knows D
15 01:27:00 auchter do it in limbo
15 01:27:00 tommos1 sigh
15 01:27:00 tommos1 At that point, why not Erlang or Haskell?
15 01:28:00 tommos1 D is very C-like, but with object-orientation and closures. Plus it supports the C ABI, so we could use external libraries.
15 01:28:00 andy753421 or why not make up *RoboLang++*
15 01:28:00 tommos1 How 'bout we just hack it together in Perl?
15 01:29:00 andy753421 eh, sounds good
15 01:29:00 auchter tommos1: limbo is pretty C like
15 01:29:00 auchter tommos1: and not really comparable to haskell or perl at all
15 01:29:00 tommos1 :=
15 01:30:00 tommos1 Can you use C libraries?
15 01:31:00 andy753421 tommos1: you don't have C libraries ;)
15 01:32:00 tommos1 Weren't you thinking of using that Intel vision library?
15 01:32:00 andy753421 yea, which is why we're going to nod and smile, and then ignore auchter
15 01:32:00 auchter haha, i try
15 01:32:00 tommos1 Python can use C libraries. ;-D
15 01:33:00 auchter well, obviously limbo doesn't support c libraries, it's not C and doesn't pretend to be
15 01:33:00 auchter and any language which allows me to use strtok as a bonus makes me mad
15 01:34:00 andy753421 tommos1: limbo's compiles to machine independent object code and is executed directly by the inferno operating system, which is written [almost?] entirely in limbo
15 01:34:00 tommos1 The page I'm reading says something about JIT compilation.
15 01:35:00 auchter back to reality, opencv looks really cool
15 01:35:00 auchter have you done anything interesting with it yet?
15 01:35:00 andy753421 auchter: not really
15 01:36:00 andy753421 we fiddled around with stereo vision most of first quarter
15 01:36:00 auchter i wish we would have used it in vision... i swear i spent more time getting the row-column indicies mixed up more than writing code
15 01:36:00 andy753421 yea, he probably would have let us if we asked
15 01:36:00 andy753421 but getting help when i got confused about the math all the time would have sucked
15 01:37:00 auchter indeed
15 01:40:00 tommos1 Looking at the OpenCV documentation... apparently it runs faster on Intel processors.
15 01:41:00 auchter hmm... i wonder how much of that is marketing...
15 01:41:00 auchter well, it looks like they do give a reason for it
15 01:42:00 auchter although the wiki page for IPP says it supports "Intel and AMD processors"
15 01:42:00 tommos1 I say that we write the core of the system in Python and offload the image processing to a C/C++ daemon via mmap. Best of both worlds.
15 01:43:00 tommos1 Yeah, I saw that. It seemed strange.
15 01:43:00 auchter my guess is the performance decrease with AMD is negligible
15 01:46:00 andy753421 tommos1: yea, i know that's what you would say
15 01:46:00 tommos1 Wait... OpenCV has a Python interface!!!
15 01:46:00 andy753421 tommos1: and GTK+ has a bash interface, but that doesn't make it a good idea
15 01:47:00 tommos1 ROFL.
15 01:49:00 tommos1 Well, it'll be good for prototyping, anyway.
15 01:50:00 andy753421 so, i'm not entirely opposed to using pythong
15 01:50:00 tommos1 In what capacity?
15 01:53:00 andy753421 however, i am apposed to using python just because you like it
15 01:53:00 andy753421 similarly, i'm opposed to using Ruby just because I like it
15 01:53:00 andy753421 and i'm opposed to using limbo because mike's crazy
15 01:53:00 andy753421 and there's a couple advantages that i like to C (and maybe to some extent C++) other than just speed
15 01:54:00 andy753421 mostly that I know exactly what's going on, and if I want to do something, i know that I _can_ and it's typically fairly strait forward, even if it takes a few more lines of code
15 01:54:00 andy753421 ?
15 01:54:00 tommos1 Okay.
15 01:55:00 tommos1 I would not be entirely opposed to Ruby, myself. The downside is that I don't know it at all.
15 01:55:00 tommos1 Similarly, I don't know C very well at all.
15 01:56:00 andy753421 so another + side to C is that it's rather small (and in my opinion easy to learn)
15 01:56:00 andy753421 c++ on the other hand...
15 01:56:00 tommos1 True.
15 01:57:00 tommos1 I find C somewhat difficult because I keep trying to write functional abstractions, as I might in Python, and then realizing that it just can't be done.
15 01:58:00 andy753421 yea, abstractions and C don't always get along that well
15 01:58:00 andy753421 out of curiosity, can you give an example?
15 02:02:00 tommos1 Earlier when I was trying to do some testing I wanted to create an "assert" function--really more of an "assert_equal". It would take two arguments and a string to display (with %s-style placehoders) when the arguments are not equal. However, I ran into the whole static typing thing.
15 02:03:00 tommos1 I wanted something closer to Python's doctests.
15 02:04:00 tommos1 Writing the test in Python, I can just write doctests and run those.
15 02:05:00 andy753421 eek doctests is weird
15 02:05:00 andy753421 anyway, i would think that you could do that with void and the printf funcitons
15 02:06:00 andy753421 although you would have to specify how to compare the two arguments
15 02:07:00 tommos1 Exactly. It ceases to be a simple 5-10 line test function and becomes test.h and test.c.
15 02:08:00 andy753421 $ wc -l /usr/lib/python2.5/doctest.py
15 02:08:00 andy753421 2637 /usr/lib/python2.5/doctest.py
15 02:09:00 andy753421 theres unit testing libraries for C as well
15 02:09:00 andy753421 (which we should probably look into using)
15 02:09:00 tommos1 Yeah, and I'd be fine with one of those.
15 02:09:00 andy753421 or, CppCheck might be good if we're using any C++
15 02:10:00 andy753421 er, CppUnit i think it's called
15 02:10:00 tommos1 I should point out that there are a lot of docstrings and doctests in doctest.py.
15 02:10:00 andy753421 fair enough
15 02:12:00 auchter as a sidenote to the C discussion, how is the new 120/220 in terms of C? the OS intro to C is pretty pathetic
15 02:13:00 andy753421 auchter: they're using eclipse if that gives you any idea..
15 02:13:00 andy753421 and I think 220 is sticking with Java
15 02:14:00 auchter ah, alright. i kind of wish they had a course dedicated to it that would scrutinize the code turned in
15 02:18:00 andy753421 yea, I don't think that 120 C is intended to be remembered for more than a few days after the final exam
15 02:18:00 andy753421 but it should make it easier to start using pointers and such again once they have to
15 02:19:00 auchter i like pointers when i don't make mistakes like omitting a * in one place that have me hunting down bugs for 20 minutes..
15 02:19:00 andy753421 hehe
15 02:22:00 andy753421 i think i just like knowing what's going on. copying/cloning datatypes/objects in higher level languages gives me headaches
15 02:23:00 auchter i see the usefulness in OO at times, and i have to admit that java does actually make life easier for classes like 230 (at least compared to c)
15 02:23:00 auchter however, i don't actually enjoy programming in it at all. i'm not a fan of OO
15 02:24:00 andy753421 heh, i've got a theory that the only reason people like OO is because it's easier to think in infix/postfix
15 02:25:00 auchter perhaps i'm misunderstanding, but i don't see a correlation
15 02:25:00 andy753421 noun.verb1(adj1).verb2(adj2).verb3(adj3) is easier to type than verb3(verb(2(verb1(noun, adj1), adj2) adj3)
15 02:25:00 auchter ah, that clears it up
15 02:26:00 andy753421 which is why I like bash (noun | verb1 adj1 | verb2 adj2 | verb3 adj3)
15 02:27:00 Morasique i missed the part about C in 120 before, but last quarter in 120 they didn't get to C until like 7th week, and they didn't even mention pointers until 10th week, so that gives you some idea of the depth they covered
15 02:29:00 auchter i really should learn a functional language... really all i've done is object oriented and procedural
15 02:30:00 Morasique curt is thinking about doing ML for a couple weeks in programming language paradigms next quarter
15 02:31:00 auchter yeah, that looked interesting...
15 02:32:00 auchter the rtos class looked interesting as well, until i saw what the operating systems actually were
15 02:32:00 andy753421 Morasique: i deleted that email, do you remember what else he's doing? (all i remember is python, something functional, and something that we pick)
15 02:33:00 Morasique he split it into 4 2.5 week blocks, one python/OO programming, one either haskell or ML/functional programming, one on new/weird like scala, fortress or prolog, and one on us doing a project in a language we didn't know before the class
15 02:34:00 Morasique auchter: i heard about that, windows CE for the win
15 02:35:00 andy753421 hmm, i wonder if we could get him to do something like forth/factor/joy for the 3rd one
15 02:36:00 Morasique i imagine he'll be pretty flexible if people are interested in studying something
15 02:36:00 andy753421 probably
15 02:37:00 andy753421 i mostly say that because looking up the others on wikipedia, 2/3 revolve around Java
15 02:38:00 auchter Morasique: it's name is wince for a reason
15 02:39:00 Morasique i've never heard that, that's an apt name
15 02:39:00 andy753421 kind of like 'Microsoft Works'?
15 02:40:00 tommos1 I had a device with Windows CE 2.11 for a while (several, in fact). Aside from the lack of networking, hardware drivers, and programs it was the best Microsoft OS I have ever used.
15 02:42:00 andy753421 interesting, i hear it's got a completely different kernel, and i suppose it has to be memory efficient
15 02:43:00 auchter i mean, i suppose it has to be a decent os, microsoft has intelligent people working for them
15 02:43:00 tommos1 That it was... my device had 32 MB of RAM.
15 02:43:00 auchter it's just that i can't imagine paying for an operating system anymore
15 02:44:00 andy753421 hehe, that reminds me of summer after freshman year
15 02:44:00 andy753421 i was living in skinner with Eric Hulk (the robotics project manager my freshman year)
15 02:45:00 andy753421 so he had applied to google but they took a long time to send his acceptance letter and in the mean time he had applied at Microsoft
15 02:46:00 andy753421 turns out he was actually a big Linux fan and didn't have windows on any of his computers, so he's sitting there in the living room about a week before going to work for microsoft trying to windows vista installed on his laptop and failing miserably :)
15 02:47:00 auchter haha, well done. i wouldn
15 02:47:00 auchter 't have even bothered trying
15 02:47:00 auchter gah, the lack of a backspace key is throwing off my enter-key-hitting skills
15 02:48:00 andy753421 haha, that'd be fun, take your linux only computer to MS tech support and say you broke something
15 02:52:00 tommos1 That git thread that you linked earlier gets interesting--there's an argument with a D guy.
15 03:00:00 Morasique i read once on the blog of a microsoft guy that for years during the development of vista they used a perl script to build it, and then they finally replaced it
15 03:04:00 andy753421 anyway, i'm going to bed
15 03:04:00 tommos1 Good night.
15 10:31:00 auchter did we discuss who is presenting on thursday?
15 13:24:00 andy753421 what's the opposite of infix operators?
15 13:24:00 andy753421 i.e. the absolute value operator
15 14:15:00 andy753421 fyi, those are called circumfix operators..
15 16:50:00 Blazeix Hi, am I correct in my understanding that if `nslookup 137.112.134.20` returns `name=apo.rose-hulman.edu` in the output, then 137.112.134.20 resolves to apo.rose-hulman.edu?
15 16:50:00 Blazeix I'm pretty sure it does, but I think an IAIT server is confused.
15 16:52:00 andy753421 Blazeix: yes, that would be correct, however i tend to use 'host 137...20' instead
15 16:53:00 auchter yeah, host returns the same thing
15 16:54:00 Blazeix I'm setting up an email server using IAIT's emailrelay.rose-hulman.edu, which I believe operates on a whitelist basis
15 16:55:00 Blazeix apo.rose-hulman.edu, according to IAIT, is allowed to use emailrelay.rose-hulman.edu, but if I try to telnet from apo to emailrelay, emailrelay cuts off the connection
15 16:55:00 Blazeix I guess I'll probably contact them and ask what's up.
15 16:56:00 andy753421 Blazeix: telnet?
15 16:57:00 Blazeix yeah, I was testing to see if emailrelay was allowing connections from apo, so from apo i telnetted to emailrelay on port 25.
15 16:57:00 andy753421 ah, ok
15 16:57:00 Blazeix thinking that if that worked, I would try manually sending mail
15 16:57:00 andy753421 yea, it does the same for me
15 18:04:00 kleinjt Is there a robotics meeting today? I haven't gotten a mass email about it, and I don't think we've done anything significant.
15 18:04:00 kleinjt Uh.. at least the electronics meeting, and significant since then last meeting.
15 18:05:00 kleinjt Er.. at least, I haven't really done anything.. never mind.
15 18:06:00 auchter kleinjt: there's a meeting same time as always, we're discusing budget
15 18:07:00 auchter kleinjt: also, i'm working on a schematic for the motor controller now (finally)
15 18:07:00 auchter i'll talk to you about it later if you come
15 18:09:00 auchter additionally, why can't you clone groups in eagle? or can you, and i'm missing something...
15 18:12:00 kleinjt auchter: ok, I will be there
15 18:12:00 kleinjt by clone, do you mean copy a group? I'm not sure what you mea
15 18:15:00 auchter yes, copy a group
15 18:17:00 auchter gah, i figured it out. why is it called "cut" when it doesn't delete what is selected?
15 18:17:00 kleinjt uh.. I just figured it out, you need to cut and paste :/
15 18:17:00 kleinjt if you finish off, can I take a shot at laying out the traces? If you don't want to do it, it is my favorite part
15 18:18:00 auchter definitely, that's my least favorite part
15 18:18:00 kleinjt mmkay, awesome
15 18:46:00 auchter Blazeix: you know LaTeX, right?
15 18:57:00 Blazeix auchter: not really, I can make a simple document though
15 18:58:00 auchter alright, because i was thinking that would be the best way to do the OS doc, since it plays nicely with svn
15 19:00:00 Blazeix sounds good. Do you know if Boland and Jared know LaTeX?
15 19:03:00 auchter boland can do it, i doubt jared can, but really he shouldn't need to know much... unless we need a table or something, just knowing commands like begin{itemize} would probably be sufficient
15 20:55:00 tommos1 Andy: I've gone over all of the IGVC design reports from last year, noting down computer, OS, and programming language/software used.
15 22:06:00 auchter tommos1: (i know i'm not andy) anything interesting?
15 22:06:00 auchter tommos1: i remember seeing a few teams using labview, which suprised me
15 22:07:00 tommos1 A few is an understatement. More like half, in some capacity.
15 22:07:00 tommos1 Including all of the VT teams.
15 22:08:00 tommos1 There are also a couple using Java (one in conjunction with C++).
15 22:08:00 auchter ugh
15 22:08:00 tommos1 And about two using C#.
15 22:08:00 auchter heh, any at all using just C?
15 22:09:00 tommos1 Usually it's listed in conjunction with C++.
15 22:09:00 andy753421 hm, i'm going to go walk back to skinner an then read the log and join back in on this conversation
15 22:09:00 tommos1 Okay.
15 22:09:00 auchter ah, like those crazy people who say they know C/C++?
15 22:11:00 tommos1 I wonder whether the teams that don't say anything about what language they use are using C. Because the C++ and Java users tend to be OO evangelists, and LabView users mention it like it's a requirement of the license agreement. There are a lot of Matlab users, too.
15 22:12:00 auchter plus the LabView and MATLAB users need to mention it, since the license goes on their budget
15 22:13:00 tommos1 Whereas C is... routine. Especially to the people who would use it. "Well, of course I used C!"
15 22:14:00 auchter yeah, there's really nothing notable about it, except the fact that it works
15 22:14:00 tommos1 Lots of people don't mention what operating system they use, either, though they may go into depth on the specs of their computer(s).
15 22:14:00 tommos1 There are several teams using freaking *clusters*.
15 22:15:00 auchter we should to, with each node running plan9/inferno
15 22:15:00 tommos1 Naaah... drivers.
15 22:15:00 auchter feel free to ignore me at this point, haha
15 22:16:00 tommos1 Linux is the only viable choice.
15 22:16:00 auchter agreed, for many reasons
15 22:16:00 tommos1 In fact, though there were a couple of Gentoo users, most of the Linux teams used Ubuntu or a variant thereof.
15 22:17:00 auchter last i talked to andy he was thinking slackware, which i agree with fully
15 22:18:00 tommos1 I'd prefer Ubuntu server. sudo apt-get install libcv1
15 22:18:00 auchter there's really no reason for package management on a robot
15 22:18:00 tommos1 (OpenCV library.)
15 22:18:00 auchter yeah, i know
15 22:18:00 auchter well, debian i could see
15 22:18:00 auchter in which case that command would still apply
15 22:19:00 tommos1 Sure.
15 22:19:00 tommos1 Do the drivers for that stupid camera card restrict us significantly as far as kernel versions, or did you get that worked around?
15 22:20:00 auchter you'll have to ask andy about that
15 22:20:00 auchter obviously the best workaround would be to get those cameras from elphel
15 22:20:00 tommos1 Yeah, but will we realistically get two of them?
15 22:21:00 auchter probably.
15 22:21:00 auchter we could put one in the budget if we can't get both free
15 22:21:00 auchter anyway, i'm thinking we should start a robotics channel, this is kind of offtopic and not relavent for most people here
15 22:21:00 tommos1 Yeah, good point.
15 22:22:00 auchter #rhrobo ? or do you have a better idea?
15 22:22:00 tommos1 Sounds good. Care to start a logger?
15 22:23:00 Zeta_RHIT linux powered robots are offtopic?
15 22:23:00 Zeta_RHIT how's that?
15 22:23:00 auchter andy's the one with the script, he'll do it when he gets back
15 22:23:00 auchter Zeta_RHIT: didn't think anyone cared... if they did, they should join the robotics team...
15 22:23:00 auchter *subtle hint*
15 22:24:00 tommos1 We were about to have a big hardware/fund-raising/programming language discussion.
15 22:25:00 auchter see the log from last night for an idea of how that programming language discussion can go
15 22:27:00 tommos1 We need a prettier log interface. It's getting really big.
15 22:29:00 auchter well, log rotation would be easy... i think the interface is fine.
15 22:29:00 auchter but i think one file per week/day would be good
15 22:34:00 tommost andy: #rhrobo
15 22:35:00 andy753421 oh :/
15 22:35:00 andy753421 i liked having the robotics team randomly take over the lug channel
15 22:35:00 tommost I didn't mind it, myself. Auchter's suggestion.
15 22:55:00 auchter well, if no one minds we can continue the discussion in here
15 22:56:00 andy753421 i like it because it means I don't have to run another daemon on my server
15 22:56:00 auchter fair enough
15 22:56:00 andy753421 it's up to you all
15 22:56:00 andy753421 anyway, did anything get discussed while i was gone?
15 22:56:00 auchter i say we take this over
15 22:57:00 auchter there was nothing at all said in #rhrobo, and i'm leaving it now
15 22:57:00 andy753421 ok
15 22:57:00 tommost I said something.
15 22:57:00 tommost I'm sad.
15 22:57:00 auchter tommost: i meant before he joine
15 22:57:00 auchter d
15 22:57:00 tommost Oh, I was waiting for andy.
15 22:58:00 andy753421 yea, so i looked up the #rhlug log
15 22:58:00 tommost What do you think of Limbo?
15 22:58:00 andy753421 are we seriously considering Limbo?
15 22:59:00 tommost Yup. 13 different teams used it along with Inferno.
15 22:59:00 tommost Remember those clusters I mentioned.
15 22:59:00 tommost ?
15 22:59:00 andy753421 hm..
15 22:59:00 auchter haha, it was meant more as a joke...
15 22:59:00 auchter but here's some food for thought: http://www.es.ele.tue.nl/~pstanley/98-023/
15 23:00:00 andy753421 it would be pretty sweet to give a talk and/or write a paper on implementing everything as file server ;)
15 23:00:00 andy753421 but we'd also have to rewrite all the linux driver, which would suck
15 23:00:00 tommost Yes, we should import that professor and make him our Inferno coder. We can chain him to the coat rack in the project room.
15 23:02:00 andy753421 from the log: yes, we'd be restricted to using <=2.6.17 (i think)
15 23:02:00 andy753421 unless we can get them to release new drivers, which I find unlikely
15 23:02:00 andy753421 and/or port the relevant parts of the old kernel up to recent
15 23:02:00 tommost I vote that you do that.
15 23:02:00 auchter we should get a ps3 + a fpga with ethernet and copious GPIOs instead of a general computer..
15 23:03:00 auchter image processing would be insane on it.
15 23:03:00 tommost Good point.
15 23:03:00 andy753421 hm.. power supply?
15 23:03:00 auchter http://cag.csail.mit.edu/ps3/
15 23:03:00 tommost We'd still need some serial ports, though.
15 23:03:00 auchter andy753421: it wouldn't be any more difficult
15 23:03:00 auchter tommost: fpga can provide that
15 23:04:00 andy753421 yea, and the lack of expandability would really suck
15 23:04:00 andy753421 auchter: i was thinking more along the lines batteries
15 23:04:00 auchter though really, what can you see us needing to add?
15 23:05:00 andy753421 um, anything?
15 23:05:00 andy753421 back to topic: tom, what did you actually find out about the languages?
15 23:05:00 tommost We could just use a PS3 for image processing, with all of the I/O happening on a Mini-ITX--type PC board.
15 23:06:00 tommost Well, lots of C and C++. Some Python.
15 23:06:00 andy753421 do you have links to the data you were looking at?
15 23:07:00 auchter tommost: IO could all be done with an FPGA. we haven't decided on an interface for the motor controllers yet, and we can get more than enough serial ports from most boards as well
15 23:07:00 tommost http://www.igvc.org/design/design_teams.asp?year=2007
15 23:07:00 tommost I skimmed through all of those PDFs.
15 23:07:00 tommost (Yes, all of them.)
15 23:07:00 tommost (Procrastination is a powerful ally of the robotics club.)
15 23:08:00 andy753421 do you know which ones use pythong/something else interesting?
15 23:08:00 tommost Bob Jones University and UTexas-Austin.
15 23:08:00 tommost I took notes; I'll post them on the wiki.
15 23:08:00 andy753421 ok
15 23:09:00 andy753421 Bob Jones University scares me..
15 23:09:00 auchter sidenote: BJU scares me.
15 23:09:00 auchter haha.
15 23:09:00 tommost Why? They combined the goodness of Python with the horror of Windows XP?
15 23:10:00 auchter the fact that they aren't allowed to watch movies with a rating >PG is a start.
15 23:10:00 tommost Ah, gotcha.
15 23:10:00 auchter it's a daycare, not a bloody university
15 23:11:00 tommost *that* sort of place.
15 23:11:00 tommost Like Regent.
15 23:11:00 tommost And they named it Balthasar...
15 23:11:00 auchter they don't have unfiltered internet access... i'm suprised they could get any documentation at all, haha
15 23:14:00 auchter hm, single camera stereo, with a 266MHz processor...
15 23:15:00 tommost Who?
15 23:15:00 auchter BJU
15 23:16:00 tommost Ah. And they seem to have done their image stuff in Python, too.
15 23:22:00 adams lets code it in brainf**k
15 23:22:00 adams that way itd be nice and 'simple'
15 23:22:00 tommost Okay, but only if I can generate the bf in Perl.
15 23:22:00 adams haha
15 23:24:00 tommost Okay, my notes are on the wiki: https://project.rhitrobotics.org/trac/rt/wiki/2007IGVCSurvey
15 23:27:00 tommost Actually, the prism thing is pretty clever.
15 23:27:00 auchter woah, smeone new in here i haven't seen before
15 23:28:00 tommost That's Rob.
15 23:29:00 auchter oh, player-stage... i forgot about that
15 23:29:00 tommost What is it, exactly? The GIT team seemed proud of it.
15 23:31:00 auchter it's a whole robotics platform
15 23:31:00 tommost From what I read, it seemed somewhat structurally similar to what we have planned, though abstracted to work over the network.
15 23:31:00 tommost Is that right?
15 23:32:00 adams if you abstract what we have and put it over the network you basically get JAUS
15 23:33:00 tommost Yeah, one of the team papers talked about almost doing that, then deciding that JAUS was too heavyweight for their microcontroller.
15 23:33:00 adams yeah
15 23:33:00 adams JAUS does feel a bit 'heavy'
15 23:33:00 tommost Is OpenJAUS C or C++?
15 23:33:00 adams hmm
15 23:34:00 adams i think there was a c++ implementatino
15 23:34:00 adams as well as a java one
15 23:34:00 andy753421 (off topic (or maybe on topic): monthly logs sound good?)
15 23:35:00 tommost Yes.
15 23:35:00 auchter fine with me
15 23:35:00 adams actually, its c and java
15 23:35:00 adams there isnt a c++
15 23:35:00 tommost That's nice.
15 23:35:00 adams sorta
15 23:35:00 tommost C is easier to deal with from Python.
15 23:35:00 adams except JAUS would fit very nicely into oop
15 23:35:00 adams are we thinking of using python?
15 23:35:00 tommost Are we?
15 23:35:00 adams i didnt think so
15 23:36:00 adams I thought we were set on C/++
15 23:36:00 andy753421 i'm going to read over those papers
15 23:36:00 andy753421 adams: tom was talking last nigh (not sure if you were here) about doing the high level stuff in python
15 23:36:00 tommost I think that it would be nice to have a big chunk of the complicated code immune to segfaults, and easy to read.
15 23:37:00 andy753421 since there are some other teams doing that it seems like something to consider
15 23:37:00 adams easy to read is relative
15 23:37:00 andy753421 we'd also get the advantage of all the freshman being able to write it
15 23:37:00 adams yeah
15 23:37:00 adams course, not me, I;d have to learn it since i skipped over 120 and 221
15 23:38:00 tommost It's quite easy to learn. And it has OOP.
15 23:38:00 adams yeah I was watching someone down the hall coding it earlier, not sure I like the syntax too much
15 23:38:00 andy753421 yea, it takes care of memory management too, which is a sortof plus
15 23:38:00 adams but its doable
15 23:38:00 adams well if we right a memory managing class then c++ could manage memory as well, and we'd know exactly how it was doing so
15 23:39:00 andy753421 adams: yea, the forced tabbing was a big turn off at first, but its not to hard to get used to
15 23:39:00 adams write*
15 23:39:00 adams the tabbing isnt as bad as the lack of declaring variables
15 23:40:00 adams unless there is a way to force explicit declaration
15 23:40:00 andy753421 i don't know to much about the python type system, but I don't think there's that much of a reason to type variables
15 23:40:00 tommost No, there isn't. It would be handy if there were some sort of lint tool that looked for likely spelling errors--most of the errors in my Python code are caused by mistyping some identifier.
15 23:41:00 tommost Yeah, types are unnecessary.
15 23:41:00 adams well typing is debatable
15 23:41:00 tommost But having an explicit namespace has certain advantages.
15 23:41:00 adams but I'm more concerned about the fact you dont have to declare them
15 23:41:00 adams yeah
15 23:42:00 andy753421 i agree that typing systems are debatable, (after all, we're debating them), what do you like about having to declare variables?
15 23:42:00 tommost I'm actually kind of fond of how JavaScript does it--you declare with "var".
15 23:42:00 adams typos are caught compile time?
15 23:43:00 adams the fact the compiler doesnt just create new objects/variables for me without me asking?
15 23:43:00 andy753421 true, but I think if we do unit testing then that will catch it all before it's running the robot
15 23:43:00 adams sure but its a more direct catch if you have an explicit namespace
15 23:44:00 andy753421 that's is true
15 23:45:00 andy753421 thinking practically though, i cant actually remember a time where declaring variables would have saved me time/bugs
15 23:45:00 adams I can
15 23:45:00 adams I used to use an implicit namespace language and typos were a decent problem
15 23:47:00 auchter python should take a hint from perl and implement "use strict;"
15 23:47:00 adams also I think it makes it more readable, if all the sudden a new variable pops out of nowhere someone looking through the code has to wonder whether it already existed in the current scope and hadn't been referenced in a while or whether its a new variable
15 23:47:00 adams and you could accidently be trying to make a new variable and effectively overwrite an old one using the same name depending on your code
15 23:48:00 auchter http://pychecker.sourceforge.net/
15 23:48:00 auchter looks pretty cool and seems like it would address some of your issues
15 23:50:00 andy753421 pychecker does look nice
15 23:52:00 adams interesting
15 23:53:00 andy753421 some issues can be worked around with conventions as well, like self.variable instead of globals
15 23:53:00 adams so do you really have to have self as an argument for every method that wants to refer to its object?
15 23:53:00 andy753421 adams: yea, that's one of the things that some people like and some people dont like
15 23:53:00 andy753421 personally, i like it
15 23:53:00 andy753421 since you can do ParentClass.parent_method(obj, 1, 2)
15 23:54:00 adams but if I have an object would i do object.method(); or object.method(object)?
15 23:54:00 andy753421 and that's how I think of OOP programing anyway
15 23:54:00 adams well that is how it works, but usually that "self" is hidden
15 23:54:00 andy753421 when you do object.method(args) it gets translated to Class.method(obj, args)
15 23:54:00 adams ok
15 23:54:00 andy753421 so you only write self in the definition
15 23:54:00 adams ok
15 23:54:00 adams and I'd assume for static methods you dont then
15 23:55:00 andy753421 nope
15 23:56:00 andy753421 something else to consider: if we use something like python for the core and C for drivers/image processing, will the C code be able to interface with the python code?
15 23:56:00 andy753421 tom you can probably answer that the best, I know python can use C but can C use pythong?
15 23:57:00 tommost Like, as a callback function? Sure.
15 23:57:00 tommost Or embed the Python interpreter? Less trivial, but still yes.
15 23:57:00 andy753421 well, for instance, if the event system is written in python, can you add a listener from C?
15 23:59:00 andy753421 or if the camera capture code is written in C, can you send a 'camera-data-received' event from C, though python, to the image processing code (also written in C)?
16 00:01:00 adams how nontrivial would embedding that be?
16 00:02:00 tommost I'm not really familiar with it. But it can't be that bad, since so many projects embed Python as a scripting language.
16 00:02:00 tommost I don't think that the event thing would be an issue.
16 00:03:00 adams it just seems to me that if we are going to be using a higher level scripting language it would make most sense to embed it into the core rather than having them interact seperately
16 00:03:00 adams I could be wrong
16 00:03:00 tommost I was thinking that Python would be the master thread.
16 00:03:00 tommost You would likely write a small Python wrapper module for those things that need to be in C--the cameras, image processing, etc.
16 00:04:00 andy753421 yea, if you can figure out how to do that, it would be good
16 00:04:00 tommost http://docs.python.org/ext/ext.html
16 00:04:00 andy753421 i would be worried about sharing memory mostly. If the cameras are pulling in 10Mb/s passing around pointers is a snap, but i don't know how well that would work with python
16 00:05:00 adams well are you pulling images into a buffer, or are you just working with the current image?
16 00:06:00 adams to the point could it be the same 10 mb each time or would there be allocation going on repeatedly?
16 00:06:00 andy753421 currently, when you read an image, it gets read into a buffer
16 00:06:00 andy753421 there would most likely be allocations going on all the time
16 00:06:00 adams ok
16 00:07:00 tommost How so?
16 00:07:00 andy753421 that way if something is using an image, it won't get overridden acidentally
16 00:07:00 tommost Yes, copying in the event system. But not due to Python.
16 00:07:00 adams well that would just require two bufferes
16 00:07:00 adams buffers*
16 00:07:00 adams the one being worked on and the next image if its available
16 00:07:00 andy753421 yea, but you don't want to get to far behind
16 00:08:00 adams well no
16 00:08:00 tommost I thought that we were going to queue them.
16 00:08:00 andy753421 unless the next one is going to be overridden until it's switched to current
16 00:08:00 adams yes
16 00:08:00 adams that was what i was implying
16 00:08:00 andy753421 my thinking was that you would read an image, send an event with a pointer to the data, and then do the same for the next one
16 00:09:00 andy753421 if some event handler is busy with a previous image it would just 'liberate' the new one and the event system would deallocate it
16 00:09:00 adams well I think it would make sense if the next code in the chain sends back a request, to avoid all the necessary allocation and throwing away
16 00:09:00 andy753421 adams: 'liberate' is the name we picked for decrementing the reference count on an event, when it get's to 0 it get's freed
16 00:10:00 tommost How is allocating a pointer a big deal?
16 00:10:00 adams allocating 10 MB unnecessarily a lot?
16 00:10:00 andy753421 tommost: it would be reading the image that would be slow
16 00:11:00 tommost I'm confused. Are you talking about reading the image from the camera, or the users of the image reading it?
16 00:11:00 andy753421 you'll only read the image once (that being off the camera). After that everyone will use the same pointer to it
16 00:11:00 tommost That's what I was thinking.
16 00:13:00 andy753421 so what adam was saying, is that instead of having the capture code continuously reading images and spawning events, there should be a trigger to have the capture code read a single new image
16 00:14:00 tommost We could do that... not hard.
16 00:15:00 andy753421 anyway, back to the point, we need to be able to have those images go to/though/out_of python with out having to actually copy the data
16 00:16:00 adams the image processing is going to be done in java?
16 00:16:00 adams er
16 00:16:00 tommost Ideally, we just put whatever data structure OpenCV wants as input into the event. No copying necessary.
16 00:16:00 adams python*
16 00:16:00 tommost Prototyping with OpenCV in Python.
16 00:16:00 tommost Definitely.
16 00:16:00 tommost Perhaps a final implementation in C.
16 00:16:00 adams ok
16 00:17:00 adams how does python deal with large blocks of memory?
16 00:17:00 tommost What, like images?
16 00:17:00 andy753421 basically they just need to have the same address space and be able to work well with pointers
16 00:17:00 andy753421 c and python that is
16 00:18:00 tommost I'll investigate that.
16 00:28:00 tommost Thinking about it, I'm quite sure that that isn't an issue. Libraries like the Python Imaging Library don't have crazy allocation issues.
16 00:29:00 tommost If it were really an issue, then the OpenCV bindings would include a big, fat warning of what's happening.
16 00:31:00 andy753421 Ok, I think it would still be good to look into, just so we can get a more defendant answer to how it works
16 00:31:00 andy753421 in other news: http://lug.phire.org/irc/logs/
16 00:32:00 tommost Very nice.
16 00:32:00 andy753421 you get monthly logs because weekly logs would be harder, and daily logs would make to many files
16 00:41:00 auchter hmm, playing the game of being the first one to say something in the log will be fun...
16 00:41:00 auchter looks like i'm 3 for 4 right now
16 00:42:00 andy753421 whatever, i was the first of the first :P:
16 00:42:00 auchter yeah, damn you for creating the room *shakes fist ineffectively*
16 00:42:00 andy753421 guess i'll just have to script luglog to ignore any auchter comments until the new file has been created :P
16 00:44:00 auchter wait, wouldn't that mean i get the first line in each file?
16 00:48:00 andy753421 well, i was thinking it would ignore your comments until the file is created by someone else's comment
16 00:49:00 auchter that would work well enough
16 00:51:00 andy753421 '[ ! -f "$log" ] && [[ "$line" = *<auchter>* ]] || #rhlug : 01/16/08 05:52 <andy753421> or something along those lines
16 00:52:00 andy753421 but i'm trying to keep luglog.sh small, so i don't think i'll do that
16 01:19:00 auchter so, does the HSS hate the internet? i cannot find any course decriptions for the (GL|RH|SL|VA)399 classes
16 01:20:00 andy753421 http://www.rose-hulman.edu/Catalog0607/courses-hss.htm
16 01:22:00 auchter ...which doesn't really give descriptions of the 399 classes like Overseas Chinese and such
16 01:22:00 andy753421 oh, n/m then i guess those are like the csse490 classes
16 02:21:00 auchter good xkcd today
16 03:47:00 Zeta_RHIT aye
16 12:23:00 auchter kleinjt: i committed a file called "ideas" with some more ideas to the repos
16 12:25:00 auchter kleinjt: also, i was just thinking about the HIP4081. i'm not sure it would be possible with it to short the two terminals of the motor (to provide braking of various strengths), but i need to look at the datasheet again
16 12:43:00 kleinjt auchter: so am I putting a microcontroller on the board? I noticed you had one on there
16 12:44:00 kleinjt auchter: also, I think a pic might be easier, none of the avrs under 20 pins have a easy way of doing USART
16 12:44:00 kleinjt and anything that big might be overkill
16 14:36:00 rr72 dopewars is the shit!
16 14:38:00 TBoneULS octavious: do you have class at 1:35 tomorrow?
16 14:51:00 auchter kleinjt: ( andy753421 too, i suppose): svn://phire.org/robotics/motorcontroller/ideas
16 15:01:00 TBoneULS so im going to meet with that person tomorrow to talk about the constition
16 15:01:00 TBoneULS and such
16 15:01:00 TBoneULS ill let everyone know how that goes
16 15:03:00 auchter TBoneULS: sounds good
16 15:03:00 kleinjt auchter: I've never touched PID or I2C (or used plan9) so uh.. looks awesome, good luck. I'll be happy to connect the dots in eagle. The fan connector sounds like a good idea, too.
16 15:04:00 rr72 does FF have an auto relaod feature? like to see scores if the page doesnt autorefresh?
16 15:05:00 tommost Nope. You'll need an extension.
16 15:05:00 tommost Opera does, though.
16 15:05:00 rr72 is there one like that?
16 15:05:00 rr72 oh it does?
16 15:05:00 rr72 ill just use that
16 15:05:00 rr72 where is it?
16 15:05:00 tommost Sorry, I can't remember. You'll have to search a.m.o.
16 15:06:00 auchter kleinjt: PID is very easy, you can read the wiki on it if you want, or i can talk to you about it
16 15:06:00 auchter it's just basic calc
16 15:06:00 rr72 amo?
16 15:06:00 auchter i2c (at least the linux drivers) is evil, so i'm very open to suggestions
16 15:07:00 auchter i'd prefer something bus-like so we don't need individual runs to each device
16 15:07:00 tommost addons.mozilla.org.
16 15:08:00 rr72 tommost~ DUMB ASS!
16 15:08:00 rr72 right click and its right there
16 15:08:00 rr72 is an idiot
16 15:08:00 rr72 found it there too
16 15:08:00 tommost What, you mean just reload it once? Press 5.
16 15:08:00 tommost *F5.
16 15:09:00 rr72 no
16 15:09:00 rr72 right click in opera and "relaod every ..."
16 15:09:00 rr72 its a submenu
16 15:09:00 tommost Yeah, that's what I was talking about.
16 15:10:00 rr72 its right there lol i was looking for it, ty
16 15:13:00 kleinjt auchter: I'll read about PID once the board is made. On the topic of the bus scheme, I can't think of anything else other than SPI or RS-485, and I haven't done anything with them either. I don't think we have the hardware for RS-485, and it looks like the linux SPI drivers are based off the I2C drivers.
16 15:14:00 rr72 PID? Pelvic Inflamitory Disease?
16 15:14:00 kleinjt RS-422 is multidrop, but I don't think we could send data back easily
16 15:14:00 kleinjt rr72: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller
16 15:15:00 auchter kleinjt: ok. Inferno provides an i2c interface that seems pretty decent: http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/man/3/i2c.html
16 15:16:00 kleinjt auchter: so our robot will run plan9?
16 15:17:00 auchter not necesarily. Inferno can run under Linux
16 15:17:00 andy753421 does anyone know of any images viewers that can read image data from a pipe?
16 15:18:00 auchter andy753421: feh?
16 15:18:00 andy753421 doesn't seem to work
16 15:18:00 auchter page?
16 15:18:00 andy753421 oo, pages works
16 15:29:00 auchter kleinjt: another idea i've been thinking about is using some single board computer for all of the sensor interfacing, and have that run plan9 or inferno. from there, the main linux box could mount the 9P filesystem over the network
16 15:30:00 kleinjt auchter: does the pentium 3 board still work?
16 15:32:00 auchter kleinjt: your use of the word "still" implies that it worked at one time
16 15:33:00 kleinjt auchter: sorry, I assumed the club did not get it DOA.
16 15:33:00 auchter kleinjt: haha, it was more of a joke, but that thing is evil and bad on many levels
16 15:33:00 tommost What sensors are you thinking of interfacing with this way? Most of them are just serial, which we can interface with without an external box, right?
16 15:34:00 kleinjt My less than a minute of research led me to think that plan9 does not have very good non x86 hardware support, and x86 SBCs can be expensive
16 15:34:00 auchter tommost: yes, ones like the accelerometer and lidar unit would be interfaced directly through the main box's serial port
16 15:34:00 auchter tommost: only devices which don't have a serial interface would use this
16 15:35:00 tommost The wheel encoders?
16 15:35:00 kleinjt we could stick them on the motor controller maybe
16 15:35:00 kleinjt and access them through that or something
16 15:36:00 auchter the wheel encoders make most sense as attached to the motor controllers, that's what i put in my ideas file
16 15:36:00 auchter that way PID would be handled on board the controller itself, which makes the most sense
16 15:36:00 kleinjt that is why I said that, because I read it in the ideas file
16 15:36:00 auchter then the main computer only needs to be worried about what speed/direction it should be going
16 15:38:00 tommost Sounds good.
16 15:38:00 auchter other sensors, such as ultrasonic, other encoders, etc. could all be interfaced through this then
16 15:40:00 auchter kleinjt: http://www.vitanuova.com/solutions/embedded/index.html
16 15:41:00 tommost Can you give me a URL for the cameras we're after?
16 15:41:00 auchter http://www3.elphel.com/
16 15:46:00 kleinjt have you looked at the iP Engine-1? <http://www.brightstareng.com/ine1.htm>
16 15:46:00 kleinjt I haven't found a price for it yet though...
16 15:47:00 kleinjt I would not be surprised if a basic mini-ITX board was cheaper
16 15:48:00 auchter me too, but mini-itx is still too much for what we'd use
16 15:48:00 auchter i would prefer something from soekris or technologic systems
16 15:48:00 auchter though i'm not sure if any of TS's boards would run it
16 16:00:00 auchter so plan 9 does run on the technologic ts-7200. i have a ts-7400 at my apartment that i'm not really doing anything with, i might give it a try
16 16:05:00 auchter it should work fine on the ts-7400, both use the EP9302
16 16:20:00 tommost Is the system we're buying for the robot 64-bit?
16 18:13:00 tommost 64-bit? Sí, no?
16 18:14:00 kleinjt tommost: Sí
16 18:15:00 kleinjt tommost: if by system you mean the linux computer, I'm not sure about the plan 9 one
16 18:15:00 tommost I mean the Linux computer, yes. (I was wondering because Psyco, a Python JIT compiler, doesn't do 64-bit.)
16 18:16:00 kleinjt Well, the processor will be 64 bit, I'm not sure if the software will be.
16 18:30:00 tommost Well, there isn't any real disadvantage to doing 32-bit, is there?
16 19:30:00 auchter tommost: the computer will be 64-bit, but that doesn't mean all the software needs to be
16 19:39:00 tommost I understand that.
16 19:44:00 auchter perhaps i misunderstood your question
16 19:45:00 tommost No, you got it right. I was mainly just curious. I understand that we can do a 32-bit install on 64-bit hardware, or even use a special "32-bit compatible" Python to run Psyco.
16 21:54:00 auchter how well does linux work out for ece332? i don't see it on the course list
16 21:56:00 Blazeix auchter: my roommate is a cppe, and he says that the class is mostly report reading and writing
16 22:00:00 auchter Blazeix: alright, excellent
16 22:00:00 auchter there are at least three linux users (including me) in my section, so good news indeed
17 00:38:00 tommost Anyone have any idea why OpenOffice has decide that I don't get to have icons in my toolbars, just text?
17 00:38:00 tommost *decided
17 00:40:00 tommost Is it just stupid about icon packs?
17 00:45:00 andy753421 tools->options->OpenOffice.org->View?
17 00:45:00 andy753421 try changing icon style to something else
17 00:47:00 tommost I tried that--it doesn't help. It just changes the amount of padding the textual "buttons" get.
17 00:47:00 tommost I'm not sure that it's a net loss. While I can't fit anything much onto the toolbar, it makes for a less busy UI.
17 00:48:00 andy753421 Hm, i like the icons, tango is pretty nice
17 00:48:00 tommost Yeah, Tango's nice.
17 00:48:00 andy753421 is it the ubuntu install? or did you install it yourself?
17 00:48:00 tommost It's Ubuntu's.
17 00:49:00 andy753421 ok, is tango icons theme separate?
17 00:49:00 tommost I did install an icon set.
17 00:49:00 tommost Ubuntu doesn't use Tango by default... they're switching in the next release.
17 00:49:00 andy753421 ok, ubuntu openoffice defaults to using GTK+ right?
17 00:49:00 tommost I don't know.
17 00:50:00 andy753421 is openoffice all gtk+ looking?
17 00:50:00 tommost It looks native, yes.
17 00:50:00 andy753421 ok, then it probably is
17 00:50:00 tommost I tried changing to a different theme, as I have done on Windows in the past, but I wasn't able to find the option.
17 00:50:00 andy753421 OOO_FORCE_DESKTOP="" soffice
17 00:51:00 tommost Still no icons.
17 00:51:00 andy753421 or "kde" or "gnome"
17 00:52:00 tommost Neither changes anything.
17 00:52:00 tommost Whatever, I need to get work done.
17 00:54:00 andy753421 could always use LaTeX :)
17 00:54:00 tommost I wish I were.
17 00:54:00 tommost But I don't have time to mess with that now.
17 00:55:00 auchter if you're just writing a simple paper LaTeX takes like one minute to learn
17 00:55:00 tommost One minute that I don't have.
17 00:55:00 auchter documentclass{article}
17 00:55:00 auchter begin{document}
17 00:55:00 auchter <text goes here>
17 00:55:00 auchter end{document}
17 01:16:00 octavious i think they changed OOO_FORCE_DESKTOP, didnt they?
17 01:18:00 andy753421 it still works for me, but there might be another preferred way now
17 01:24:00 andy753421 SAL_USE_VCLPLUGIN maybe
17 01:24:00 andy753421 http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Environment_Variables
17 01:24:00 octavious OOo has pretty much become worthless now, with Office 2007 not being supported
17 01:24:00 octavious at least not easily
17 01:25:00 octavious there are some filters for docx, but nothing for xlsx
17 01:39:00 andy753421 I remember hearing that OOXML support is planned for 2.4, but i'm not sure how good it will be
17 02:06:00 octavious haha
17 02:06:00 octavious posted video of stallman dancing to solja boy
17 02:07:00 octavious http://www.thenewfreedom.net/wp/2008/01/16/richard-stallman-cranking-dat-soulja-boy/
17 02:14:00 auchter octavious: that may just be the coolest thing ever
17 14:31:00 therpham Auchter, it's Boland. We're going to try to meet in the CS lab 10th period if you can make it.
17 14:36:00 auchter therpham: alright, sounds good
17 14:36:00 auchter that starts at like 4:20, right?
17 14:36:00 therpham yeah
17 14:37:00 therpham okay I should pay attention to Moonspeak class now
17 16:41:00 tommost What's planned for today's meeting?
17 16:42:00 auchter i asked that question a few days ago, no one responded
17 16:48:00 tommost Someone should give a presentation on LDAP.
17 16:50:00 tommost ;-)
17 16:53:00 auchter what aspects?
17 16:53:00 tommost Why I can't get it to work. Why it hates me.
17 16:55:00 tommost There's not a whitelist on it at Rose, is there?
17 23:06:00 Blazeix auchter: I committed B,C,D, and F to our project repo
17 23:07:00 Blazeix I also private messaged you with some other info about it
17 23:55:00 auchter Blazeix: I didn't get any PMs
17 23:58:00 Blazeix I sent it via IRC pm, not AIM or anything,
17 23:59:00 auchter yeah, i know, i still didn't get anything
18 00:03:00 andy753421 anyone know what the package to install build tools (gcc, make, etc) is on fedora/rhel?
18 00:04:00 TheRoot g++?
18 00:05:00 andy753421 hm, that would probably work, but I was hoping there was some sort of meta package like 'build-essential' on ubuntu
18 00:06:00 TheRoot dunno.
18 00:06:00 TheRoot does the internet know?
18 00:06:00 andy753421 havent found anything
18 00:12:00 Blazeix auchter: The message basically said parts b,c,d, and f are in the repo.
18 00:13:00 Blazeix Also, for the 'df' command we had to introduce a counter to keep track of freespace, the specification said that we should do that. When you implement mkdir you should decrement the counter
18 00:14:00 auchter Blazeix: ok
18 00:14:00 auchter anyone know of a good .tex file indenter?
18 00:14:00 TheRoot don't forget to be careful when you have more than 32 directories in the same directory.
18 00:14:00 auchter running GNU indent was a siaster
18 00:14:00 TheRoot when I did that project that's the only place we lost points.
18 01:20:00 Blazeix auchter: Is the tex file in the repo the final version for tomorrow?
18 01:23:00 auchter Blazeix: not quite yet
18 14:33:00 TheRoot take that! ya stupid ghost.
18 15:34:00 octavious so. nethack is wasting my time.
18 15:34:00 octavious and by time i mean life.
18 16:01:00 auchter i take it you mean that i should install it and start playing then
18 16:01:00 octavious its pretty cool
18 16:36:00 tommost auchter: Is there a comprehensive list of all of the sensors that we intend to put on the robot somewhere?
18 17:52:00 kleinjt does anyone have much experience with domain name registration? I'm thinking about registering one.
18 17:54:00 andy753421 kleinjt: i've dealt with namecheap.com, 1&1, and register.com
18 17:56:00 tommost My host, asmallorange.com, does registration. ~$10. They have excellent support.
18 18:02:00 kleinjt I think I'll go with asmallorange, because they've got a messageboard. Thanks
18 18:03:00 tommost You're welcome. (If they do referrers for domains, mine is freecog.net ;-) )
18 18:03:00 kleinjt (mmmkay)
18 22:22:00 tommost auchter: Does a comprehensive list of planned sensor hardware exist?
19 00:02:00 auchter tommost: not yet
19 00:05:00 tommost Make one?
19 00:07:00 auchter today or tomorrow i will. i just got back, and i've got some other stuff to do
19 22:38:00 auchter tommost: svn://phire.org/robotics/sensors
19 22:38:00 auchter essentially all i could think of right now
19 22:40:00 tommost Thanks.
19 22:41:00 tommost Wouldn't it be better if it were on the wiki?
19 22:41:00 auchter wiki's don't allow me to use vim, and i don't necessarily trust the current administrator. however, you do have a valid point, so i'll put it up
19 22:41:00 auchter do you have a link?
19 22:42:00 tommost https://project.rhitrobotics.org/wiki/doku.php/vehicle:vehicle
19 22:42:00 tommost Or you could put it on the Trac wiki; that might be better.
19 22:42:00 auchter ok, link?
19 22:42:00 tommost https://project.rhitrobotics.org/trac/rt/
19 22:44:00 auchter so, it appears that i have no idea how to use trac, if you want to you can put it up
19 22:44:00 tommost Sure. (FYI, the only way that I can find to create a page is to type in its URL and click the "create this page" link that Trac displays.)
19 22:45:00 auchter wonderfully intuitive. though i suppose that my website works in the same way...
19 22:45:00 tommost :-)
19 22:45:00 tommost Yeah, it's weird.
19 22:45:00 tommost I also can't figure out how to do things like change components, or milestones.
19 22:46:00 tommost Maybe I don't have permissions to do that.
19 22:46:00 tommost Filing all of my bugs against "component1" is pretty useless.
19 22:47:00 tommost Lol: https://project.rhitrobotics.org/trac/rt/wiki/WikiNewPage
19 22:52:00 auchter insanity
19 22:52:00 tommost Yeah, it's really strange. Trac is so good in so many ways, yet there it is.
19 22:53:00 tommost It's up: https://project.rhitrobotics.org/trac/rt/wiki/Components
19 22:54:00 tommost (xclip is awesome, BTW.)
19 22:54:00 tommost Which of these are you thinking would be attached to your Plan9 box?
20 03:28:00 tommost What's IAIT's policy on replacing dead laptop power supplies?
20 03:31:00 Morasique auchter: i'm not sure; blazeix will probably know, but he's asleep now
20 03:31:00 Morasique er. *tommost, not auchter
20 03:32:00 auchter tommost: to answer your previous question about sensors, all the sensors which do not communicate over a standard interface (rs-232, rs-422, etc.) will be connected to the other computer
20 03:32:00 auchter tommost: which will run inferno
20 03:33:00 tommost And which will communicate with the Linux box over p9p, or something else?
20 03:33:00 tommost Or Charon, or whatever it's called under Inferno.
20 03:34:00 auchter it will communicate using 9P, which is called Styx under Inferno (yay Dante)
20 03:34:00 auchter Charon is the browser
20 03:34:00 auchter and p9p is plan9port, which is also awesome
20 03:34:00 tommost And what do we use under Linux to deal with this?
20 03:35:00 auchter linux has a kernel module for 9P2000, but there's also a FUSE version, i believe
20 03:35:00 tommost So we're mounting it?
20 03:35:00 auchter yes
20 03:35:00 tommost Okay.
20 03:36:00 auchter (this is all subject to very much change)
20 03:36:00 kleinjt Have you had a chance to try out inferno on the single board computer?
20 03:37:00 tommost I see.
20 03:37:00 kleinjt (If not that is ok, I was just saying something to note that I was awake too)
20 03:38:00 auchter kleinjt: nope, but if i can't get it to run natively on the hardware, the emulation will work fine as well
20 03:38:00 auchter note to all: inferno is installed on addiator in /scratch/apps/inferno, if you want to try it out
20 03:38:00 auchter run /scratch/apps/inferno/inferno.csh
20 03:40:00 auchter i'll be back in around 20 minutes if you have any questions
20 04:11:00 auchter back, in case anyone cares
20 12:54:00 auchter tommost: also, you said something about xclip. i was just wondering what's awesome about it
20 14:49:00 andy753421 http://gentoo-portage.com/dev-perl/Inline-Python
20 14:49:00 andy753421 not exactly sure what that's supposed to do exactly..
20 15:21:00 rr72 you guys are smart right?
20 15:21:00 rr72 i say you get a RHIT cloak lol
20 15:21:00 rr72 would be kinda cool
20 15:22:00 rr72 hilite me when want to listen to my idea/problem
20 15:34:00 auchter it's more fun to be able to see where people are located based on their hostname
20 15:34:00 auchter like i know that andy753421 is in the room right next to me without even walking over there
20 15:35:00 rr72 but you need to know their names lol
20 15:37:00 andy753421 well, you can get other info too, like I know that mike was working on his OS assignment
20 15:38:00 rr72 hehehe ok ok
20 15:39:00 rr72 i have a file with a list of paths to files, how might i copy all of them to a common dir?
20 15:40:00 andy753421 while read line; do cp "$line" /foo/bar; done < list.txt
20 15:41:00 andy753421 sed 's/.*/cp 0 /foo/bar/' file.txt | sh
20 15:41:00 rr72 either one right?
20 15:41:00 rr72 first one i understand lol
20 15:42:00 rr72 why did you add .txt to it? lol it doesnt matter extension
20 15:42:00 rr72 s
20 15:42:00 rr72 i don't like extensions, makes me think of windows hehe
20 15:43:00 auchter andy753421: that second way is crazy. would not have thought of that one
20 15:43:00 andy753421 auchter: that's what I used to do before I knew how to write bash scripts
20 15:43:00 rr72 knew some easy bash would solve it but not that good lol, i blanked out on wc earlier
20 15:43:00 rr72 was like i know it's under my nose, just can't remember
20 15:44:00 auchter andy753421: i still hate bash's syntax. i usually just fire up perl.
20 15:44:00 andy753421 meh, bash is so much easier
20 15:45:00 auchter to each his own.
20 15:45:00 andy753421 zsh syntax for for's is nicer thoough; 'for i in {1.10}; echo $i'
20 15:45:00 andy753421 *{1..10}
20 15:45:00 rr72 i only know java, like that will help me
20 15:46:00 rr72 i learned to think though
20 15:46:00 andy753421 you can skip the do done stuff if you only use one command, so you just chain stuff together with &&'s and ||'s
20 15:46:00 andy753421 xargs cp -t /foo/bar < file.txt
20 15:47:00 rr72 lol now you are showing off lol
20 15:47:00 rr72 gr
20 15:47:00 rr72 my new thing is two lols
20 15:47:00 rr72 before and after, i never used to do that
20 15:47:00 rr72 ok random question, can you have weapons in your dorm rooms or no?
20 15:48:00 auchter depends on your definition of weapons. no firearms in dorm rooms, though i believe there is storage available on campus
20 15:53:00 rr72 auchter~ wouldn't there have to be? gunclub
20 15:54:00 auchter rr72: the ones owned by the club are mostly stored off campus at the range
20 15:54:00 auchter rr72: http://www.rose-hulman.edu/StudentHandbook0708/ that may be helpful
20 15:54:00 rr72 can't you bring your own?
20 15:54:00 auchter yes, you can, though obviously it needs to be stored with Public Safety or off campus somewhere
20 16:08:00 rr72 andy753421~ clearification /foo/bar dir? list.txt file with paths?
20 16:10:00 andy753421 yea
20 16:11:00 rr72 double checking
20 16:11:00 rr72 leave the veriable same? ($line) right?
20 16:12:00 rr72 im an idtio
20 16:12:00 rr72 i went to room to get external hdd for this transfer of music for my bro and didnt grab my usb bluetooth in my laptop
20 16:13:00 andy753421 yea, you might actually want to test that a bit first
20 16:13:00 andy753421 especially if there's a lot of funny characters in the lines
20 16:14:00 rr72 yeah there are
20 16:14:00 rr72 well space
20 16:15:00 rr72 define funny chars
20 16:15:00 rr72 - % ?
20 16:15:00 rr72 like those
20 16:15:00 rr72 ?
20 16:15:00 andy753421 ' ' -
20 16:15:00 andy753421 "
20 16:15:00 andy753421 yea, pretty much
20 16:15:00 andy753421 or non ascii
20 16:16:00 andy753421 a maybe ;)
20 16:18:00 rr72 how would i fix it?
20 16:19:00 andy753421 i don't know
20 16:19:00 auchter use rc
20 16:19:00 rr72 kinda large file to go through by hand, 8k lines
20 16:20:00 rr72 er 6k
20 16:21:00 rr72 ' bad right?
20 16:22:00 rr72 and - and []?
20 16:22:00 rr72 got some ! too
20 16:23:00 rr72 and ,
20 16:23:00 rr72 er .
20 16:23:00 rr72 _ is fine right?
20 17:19:00 rr72 what if everyone in the world looked like twats, that would be interesting
20 17:31:00 rr72 andy753421~ should i just try to copy it? i think i need to format that hardrive though so i have the full amount
20 17:31:00 rr72 idk how much i am transfering, a couple thousand music files is all i know
20 17:31:00 andy753421 sure, i would put an echo in front of the 'cp' and make sure it looks alright
20 17:32:00 andy753421 or you could try copying the first 10 lines to a smaller file and make sure that works
20 17:32:00 rr72 head -c 10 > new_file?
20 17:32:00 rr72 or what ever args are right
20 17:32:00 andy753421 sure
20 17:32:00 rr72 is -c right?
20 17:33:00 andy753421 head -n for lines
20 17:33:00 andy753421 -c for chars
20 17:33:00 rr72 oh
20 17:33:00 rr72 close
20 17:33:00 andy753421 $ man head
20 17:33:00 rr72 lol w/o thinking it all it just camoue it
20 17:33:00 rr72 andy753421~ LMAO
20 17:33:00 rr72 sorry head in gutter
20 17:33:00 rr72 mount
20 17:33:00 rr72 fsck
20 17:34:00 rr72 echo how?
20 17:35:00 rr72 like what do i want to pring? $line?
20 17:35:00 andy753421 the whole command
20 17:35:00 rr73 so print what it will execute?
20 17:35:00 andy753421 yea
20 17:35:00 rr73 after do? then " right? or '? im blanking on the right ones right now
20 17:36:00 rr73 the first 10 don't have screwy chars
20 17:36:00 andy753421 just 'echo cp bla bla bla'
20 17:36:00 andy753421 then find some that do..
20 17:37:00 rr73 nvm, missed a !
20 17:37:00 rr73 and a &
20 17:40:00 rr73 worked
20 17:40:00 rr73 chars are fine
20 17:40:00 rr73 i got rid of it and tested it
20 17:40:00 rr73 will it stop if i run out of room on drive?
20 17:47:00 rr73 fucked it up
20 17:47:00 rr73 ok nvm
20 17:55:00 povilus-desktop whats a good ubuntu cd burner
20 17:56:00 povilus-desktop good = easy becaue im lazy
20 17:57:00 andy753421 povilus-desktop: gnomebaker
20 17:57:00 povilus-desktop thanx
20 18:04:00 rr72 k3b :-P
20 18:05:00 auchter no one likes kde.
20 18:06:00 rr72 FOO
20 18:07:00 TheRoot kde's not so bad.
20 18:07:00 rr72 damn hdd wont format
20 18:07:00 rr72 it will but taking forever
20 18:07:00 rr72 same with transfering music to phone
20 18:07:00 rr72 one file, taking an hour
20 18:07:00 rr72 12mb over bluetooth
20 18:09:00 auchter TheRoot: agreed, but it's quite a large package
20 18:10:00 auchter TheRoot: especially since ubuntu comes with GNOME
20 18:10:00 TheRoot shrugs.
20 18:11:00 TheRoot I just wish there were a cross-platform way to keep my keyboard shortcuts straight.
20 18:12:00 auchter hm, i haven't had any problems, and i regularly use two platforms with the same keybindings (irix and linux)
20 18:13:00 TheRoot one of them is windows, though. :P
20 18:14:00 auchter that does present quite a large difficulty
20 18:15:00 TheRoot well, there's at least one thing you could probably help with.
20 18:16:00 TheRoot I want a linux equivalent to Launchy.
20 18:17:00 auchter http://www.suckless.org/wiki/tools/xlib
20 18:17:00 auchter dmenu
20 18:17:00 auchter in fact, everything from suckless is awesome, so you should just pretty much run it all
20 18:18:00 TheRoot lol.
20 18:18:00 auchter dwm == best window manager ever.
20 18:36:00 auchter ah, epic LaTeX vs. Word arguments just occured over here
20 18:37:00 TheRoot lol. LaTeX wins.
20 18:37:00 TheRoot (or should unless your arguing pure usability.)
20 18:37:00 TheRoot you're*
20 18:37:00 auchter indeed. 3/4 members of this group are linux users who hate word
20 18:37:00 auchter TheRoot: i would argue that Word is unusable
20 18:38:00 auchter it assumes too much, and you have to do crazy contortions to get it to do what you want it to do
20 18:38:00 TheRoot only if you're doing things that are slightly outside it's presumed user-base's actions.
20 19:23:00 rr73 andy753421~ problem cause of weird chars?
20 19:23:00 rr73 cp: overwrite `/mnt/sda1/3 Doors Down - Loser.mp3'? cp: cannot stat `1/Documents and Settings/Jono/My Documents/My Music/Sixpence None The Richer - Dont Dream Its Over.mp3': No such file or directory
20 19:23:00 rr73 cp: overwrite `/mnt/sda1/Craig David - 7 days.mp3'? cp: cannot stat `r Toughest Hits/16 Rock 'N' Roll High School.mp3': No such file or directory
20 19:23:00 rr73 cp: overwrite `/mnt/sda1/08 I Don't Want to Miss a Thing.mp3'? cp: cannot stat `g The Sorrow/04 Silver and Cold.mp3': No such file or directory
20 19:23:00 rr73 The Sorrow/04 Silver and Cold.mp3': No such file or directory
20 19:24:00 rr73 damnit
20 19:24:00 rr73 only 535 files coppied, musta ran out of room
20 19:24:00 TheRoot might be the apostrophes, yeah.
20 19:24:00 rr73 bbl
20 19:24:00 rr73 movies
20 19:25:00 TheRoot seeya.
20 19:25:00 rr73 TheRoot~ be on later?
20 19:25:00 rr73 535 test_count
20 19:25:00 rr73 should be over 3k
20 19:25:00 rr73 bbl
20 21:35:00 auchter is the csse svn server still borked? it's taking forever for me to do an update...
20 21:35:00 TheRoot hang on, I'll check.
20 21:35:00 andy753421 auchter: it's working
20 21:36:00 auchter ah, there it went. it only took 4 minutes...
20 21:40:00 Morasique yeah, they fixed it earlier, but it's been ridiculously slow ever since
20 23:18:00 rr72 TheRoot~ around?
20 23:18:00 TheRoot yep.
20 23:19:00 rr72 prolly need some help in a bit
20 23:19:00 TheRoot hm. ok.
20 23:19:00 rr72 or andy753421
20 23:19:00 rr72 lol
20 23:19:00 rr72 he helped me earlier
20 23:20:00 rr72 TheRoot~ MA?
20 23:20:00 TheRoot I'll admit, I'm actually not too good at this stuff, I'm mostly here to learn.
20 23:20:00 TheRoot no, I'm Tom.
20 23:21:00 rr72 i mean ur in ma
20 23:21:00 TheRoot expand that acronym, please?
20 23:22:00 rr73 massachusets
20 23:22:00 rr73 sorry for spelling
20 23:22:00 TheRoot no, I'm in the haute.
20 23:22:00 rr73 seriosly?
20 23:22:00 rr73 oh
20 23:23:00 rr73 ok w/e lol
20 23:26:00 rr73 andy753421~ could apostrpjes be issue?
20 23:26:00 auchter the crux of the biscuit is the apostrophe.
20 23:27:00 rr73 /dev/sda1 29288208 2602944 26685264 9% /mnt/sda1
20 23:27:00 rr73 doesnt look like its filled to me :-P
20 23:28:00 rr73 535 only coppied
20 23:32:00 rr73 andy753421~ how would ' screw it up if there are some in it?
20 23:32:00 rr73 there is a boat load of 's in the file
20 23:33:00 TheRoot quotes in filenames need to be escaped, I think.
20 23:36:00 rr73 easy replacement command? sed something?
20 23:36:00 rr73 crap i forgot i am trying to do it again lol
20 23:36:00 TheRoot dunno, man? I'm not quite that good. :P
20 23:38:00 rr73 ( are bad too right or no?
20 23:38:00 TheRoot I don't know.
20 23:38:00 TheRoot they might be?
20 23:39:00 rr73 let me get first 10 li nes and actuelly copy them
20 23:39:00 TheRoot k.
20 23:39:00 rr73 i feel like an uber geek right now
20 23:41:00 rr73 ' worked fine
20 23:41:00 rr73 must be something else then
20 23:42:00 rr73 even ! worked
20 23:44:00 TheRoot hm...
20 23:47:00 rr73 guess i can try again
20 23:50:00 rr73 im a dumb ass, i can see where it stopped and look at the files and see why
20 23:50:00 TheRoot it's stopping in the same place every time?
20 23:50:00 rr73 idk yet
20 23:50:00 rr73 only tried full list once
20 23:51:00 rr73 lol
20 23:51:00 rr73 it should stop same plaace everytime
20 23:52:00 rr73 that would tell me the problem and i could fix it
21 00:06:00 rr73 cp: overwrite `/mnt/sda1/3 Doors Down - Loser.mp3'? cp: cannot stat `1/Documents and Settings/Jono/My Documents/My Music/Sixpence None The Richer - Dont Dream Its Over.mp3': No such file or directory
21 00:06:00 TheRoot hm...
21 00:07:00 TheRoot I don't suppose the "Dont" there actually has an apostrophe, huh?
21 00:08:00 rr73 way to force cp? using busybox not nice ones i like
21 00:08:00 TheRoot dunno.
21 00:09:00 rr73 nope
21 00:09:00 TheRoot like I said, I'm really probably the lease qualified to be here.
21 00:09:00 rr73 no '
21 00:10:00 auchter rr73: perhaps ##linux would be a better place for these types of questions.
21 00:11:00 rr73 wtf its adding escape chars to the '
21 00:11:00 rr73 cp: cannot stat `r Toughest Hits/16 Rock 'N' Roll High School.mp3': No such file or directory
21 00:11:00 rr73 i did not add those
21 00:11:00 rr73 psh i am prolly banned there
21 00:11:00 rr73 people hate me
21 00:12:00 rr73 i think i need to force an overwrite to fix some problems but then find out what's screwing up the other files
21 00:17:00 Blazeix auchter: did you see the email from archana?
21 00:19:00 auchter Blazeix: yes, and i beat you in responding by like 2 minutes, haha
21 00:20:00 auchter Blazeix: luckily she seemed understanding
21 00:20:00 Blazeix d'oh. should have cc'd us
21 00:21:00 Blazeix good. Its a cool feature
21 00:21:00 auchter Blazeix: yeah, i should have, but i wanted the first post
21 00:21:00 Blazeix :P
21 00:42:00 rr73 hrm no output for awhile
21 00:43:00 rr73 just on a few files
21 00:50:00 auchter http://www.vitanuova.com/news/inferno_aos.pdf
21 00:50:00 auchter i wonder if any profs would be interested in doing an OS course along those lines
21 00:52:00 TheRoot maybe.
21 00:53:00 rr73 any EEs?
21 00:53:00 auchter http://lsub.org/who/nemo/9.intro.pdf written by the same guy
21 00:59:00 rr73 Morasique is it you?!
21 01:00:00 Morasique er. what now?
21 01:01:00 rr73 waves
21 08:23:00 andy753421 netsplit?
21 08:28:00 auchter heh, it seems like i was all alone during it
21 13:08:00 andy753421 that's odd..
21 13:09:00 andy753421 hehehe
21 13:11:00 andy753421 so apparently you can make sort of undeletable files with hard links
21 13:12:00 andy753421 $ ln /bin/bash /tmp/foo
21 13:12:00 andy753421 $ rm /tmp/foo
21 13:12:00 andy753421 rm: cannot remove `/tmp/foo': Operation not permitted
21 13:12:00 andy753421 there's got to be some way to abuse that..
21 14:25:00 povilus-desktop how do you make somehing go into the backroud such that when your session disconnects it continuse runing
21 14:28:00 Blazeix povilus-desktop: nohup
21 14:29:00 povilus-desktop how do i send that to an already running proccess
21 14:30:00 rr72_ screen
21 14:32:00 Blazeix I wouldn't use screen
21 14:33:00 Blazeix nohup as a -p switch that takes an existing pid
21 14:33:00 Blazeix nohup *has* a
21 14:33:00 rr72_ something & ?
21 14:33:00 rr72_ then fg something?
21 14:53:00 TheRoot hm.
21 14:54:00 povilus-desktop thanx blazix
21 14:55:00 auchter povilus-desktop: you still interested in selling some cat5?
21 14:55:00 povilus-desktop aye
21 14:56:00 povilus-desktop woah
21 15:04:00 auchter http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/nyc/485967082.html
21 16:26:00 tommost auchter: Brilliant.,
21 16:30:00 rr72 TheRoot~ if ur interested got most songs to transfer
21 16:31:00 rr72 missing a couple hundred
21 16:31:00 rr72 hope those arent the songs he wants
21 16:36:00 auchter so inferno is pretty awesome.
21 16:36:00 TheRoot good job.
21 16:36:00 auchter listen -A tcp!*!1234 { echo hello world } on one computer
21 16:37:00 auchter dial -A tcp!192.168.0.242!1234 { cat >[1=2] } on another outputs "hello world"
21 16:39:00 auchter heh, time server can be implemented as simply as listen -A tcp!*!1235 { cat /dev/time }...
21 16:44:00 Morasique does anybody know a .lit reader for linux, like microsoft reader or mobipocket under windows? i found ways to convert them to other formats, or apparently microsoft reader is wineable, but i'd prefer a native reader if there is one
21 16:46:00 andy753421 auchter: how is that different than netcat?
21 16:49:00 auchter because i can do listen -A tcp!*!1234 { export /usr/auchtemm } to share my home directory
21 16:56:00 auchter (all this can obviously be done under plan9 as well, however virtual machines and IRIX don't play nicely, however Inferno on IRIX works great)
21 21:38:00 andy753421 Does anyone know how the power plugs on the Dell laptops work?
21 21:39:00 TheRoot I've a dell laptop.
21 21:39:00 andy753421 Mine is being funny and doesn't seem to get a good connection
21 21:39:00 TheRoot I haven't had any problems with mine, though I did replace the charger since it was getting a bit frayed where the wire met the brick.
21 21:40:00 andy753421 I was looking in it and there seems to be some contacts in the socket that I though I could clean/bend out I don't want to bend the wrong ones and/or bend them the wrong way
21 21:40:00 andy753421 TheRoot: yea, i've replaced my power cord as well
21 21:40:00 andy753421 it seems to be a laptop problem though since it happens with other cords as well
21 21:40:00 octavious i need a new one :/
21 21:41:00 octavious its been frayed out since freshman year
21 22:24:00 tommost My wireless (RHIT-1X) is being extremely flaky in the SRC weight room. It keeps dropping and reconnecting (and occasionally, nm-applet crashes.) Has anyone else had this problem?
21 22:24:00 Morasique tommost: i have that problem most places on campus, i've stopped using wireless
21 22:25:00 tommost I wish that I could... no Ethernet jacks here.
21 22:41:00 tommost I'm getting "00635: Shell access has been disabled by the system administrator" when I try to ssh into dfs.rose-hulman.edu.
21 22:43:00 auchter tommost: that's normal, only sftp is allowed
21 22:43:00 tommost Oh, okay.
21 22:44:00 auchter plus, it's a windows box and i don't think they have usable shells anyway
21 22:44:00 auchter (i could be wrong about that, though)
21 22:44:00 tommost (I doubt that you are wrong.)
21 22:44:00 tommost I just wanted to see what was in my DFS directory.
21 22:45:00 tommost sshfs away, I guess.
21 22:45:00 auchter yeah, for some reason when you sftp in, it drops you into the root directory
21 22:45:00 auchter which is stupid
21 22:47:00 tommost Agreed.
21 23:31:00 tommost I can't get public key login to work on Addiator.
21 23:34:00 Morasique tommost: did you follow the wiki directions? that's what i used and mine works
21 23:34:00 tommost Yup.
21 23:35:00 Morasique do you have afs permission system:anyuser l on your home folder? that was the only problem i had
21 23:35:00 Morasique and ~/.ssh should have system:anyuser rl
21 23:37:00 tommost How do I examine the current folder's permissions?
21 23:38:00 Morasique fs la <path>
21 23:38:00 Morasique to set them you do fs sa ~ system:anyuser l;fs sa ~/.ssh system:anyuser rl
21 23:39:00 tommost What's the point of moving authorized_keys to ~/Public and symlinking it from ~/.ssh when the permissions are the same?
21 23:40:00 Morasique oh, i forgot the wiki said that. i don't know, i didn't do that, i left it in .ssh
21 23:41:00 tommost auchter, andy753421: any reason?
21 23:41:00 tommost And thanks. It works now.
22 06:32:00 andy753421 tommost: Morasique: I have ~/.ssh set to 'system:anyuser l' and ~/Public set to 'system:anyuser rl'
22 06:33:00 andy753421 tommost: Morasique: ~/.ssh is the default directory for storing private keys (if you have any on afs) so I didn't want to make that readable
22 13:21:00 Blazeix Does anyone know the status of the pizza for LUG?
22 13:22:00 Blazeix I can send Mellor an email if it hasn't already been done.
22 15:09:00 auchter these fixes for angel all seem so random... "Students' replies to instructors go to the instructors personal mail in courses with course id starting with P-Z."
22 15:10:00 auchter i'm wondering what could possibly cause that.
22 15:16:00 TheRoot malformed regexes.
22 21:30:00 tommost Locking my computer based on the proximity of my phone via Bluetooth is freaking awesome.
22 21:47:00 Morasique tommost: i tried that a few weeks ago, but it completely didn't work for me
22 21:47:00 Morasique i'm not sure if it was my computer or my phone that was causing problems
22 21:48:00 tommost What computer and phone do you have?
22 21:48:00 tommost (The only issue that I've seen is getting false positives when the phone is in my pocket.)
22 21:48:00 Morasique the junior dell, and an LG LX160
22 21:49:00 tommost I don't know, then. I have a Freshman nw8440 and a Razr v3.
22 21:49:00 Morasique my phone is pretty cheap, so it's probably the phone
22 21:49:00 tommost Mine was the cheapest I could get. ;-)
22 21:50:00 tommost They're phasing them out, I think.
22 21:55:00 zumbrujm hey guys, do any of you do webpage development
22 21:55:00 tommost Yup.
22 21:55:00 Morasique if i have to
22 21:56:00 tommost Andy does too, though he just left.
22 21:56:00 zumbrujm sweet, My Dad has a website that I rprogrammed for him, and it needs some more work. Right now it is not Firefox compatible, because when I learned to do webpage development the course only taught for IE
22 21:57:00 tommost Ouch.
22 21:57:00 zumbrujm yea
22 21:57:00 zumbrujm I was wondering if any of you guys would be interested in helping to fix that up.
22 21:57:00 zumbrujm My Dad would be willing to pay for the work.
22 21:58:00 tommost I'm interested. What's the timeframe?
22 21:58:00 zumbrujm anytime
22 21:58:00 zumbrujm www.smartshieldtubing.com
22 21:58:00 zumbrujm it's about 6 linked pages
22 21:58:00 tommost That shouldn't take too long.
22 21:59:00 zumbrujm If you could fix it so that it displays properly in Firefox, and the hyperlinks work, and perhaps make it more visually appealing that would be great.
22 21:59:00 tommost Can do.
22 22:00:00 zumbrujm Awesome
22 22:00:00 tommost What's the rate?
22 22:01:00 zumbrujm $300 for the project
22 22:01:00 tommost Sounds great.
22 22:01:00 zumbrujm I guess you need all the files then.
22 22:01:00 tommost Yup.
22 22:02:00 tommost Should we meet?
22 22:02:00 zumbrujm That sounds good.
22 22:02:00 zumbrujm Do you live on campus?
22 22:02:00 tommost Yeah. Speed 218.
22 22:02:00 zumbrujm okay
22 22:03:00 zumbrujm How about Saturday?
22 22:03:00 tommost I won't be there from 2:00 till 6:00 or 7:00, but otherwise, sure.
22 22:04:00 zumbrujm 12ish then?
22 22:04:00 tommost Okay.
22 22:04:00 zumbrujm Great. I'll see you then
22 22:05:00 tommost See ya.
22 22:05:00 Morasique tommost: about the time he said $300, i realized i hate you :)
22 22:05:00 tommost I love you too.
22 22:06:00 auchter tommost: i should get a referral for that, i specifically mentioned you to him :)
22 22:06:00 tommost Thanks. :-)
22 22:06:00 auchter haha, no problem
22 22:39:00 andy753421 *reads the log*
22 22:39:00 andy753421 i think I left to soon.. :'(
22 22:39:00 andy753421 oh well, i've got to many other projects anyway
22 22:40:00 Morasique that was my thought till i saw the fee, then i died inside
22 22:41:00 tommost makes his roommate wonder why he is laughing so hard.
22 22:41:00 auchter the roommate who thinks you want to murder him?
22 22:43:00 tommost No, the new one.
22 22:44:00 tommost He's just about perfect.
22 22:44:00 tommost A CS, even.
22 22:45:00 auchter haha, well at least he sounds relatively sane
22 22:46:00 tommost He is entirely so.
22 22:48:00 auchter so is anyone presenting this week?
22 22:49:00 andy753421 not that I know of
22 22:49:00 andy753421 we forgot to figure that out again last meeting..
22 22:50:00 auchter perhaps in the email to notify people about the meeting/pizza/voting, we could ask if anyone wants to present
22 22:50:00 Morasique blazeix just mentioned to me that you're having officer elections and pizza, so you might be busy
22 22:51:00 andy753421 meh, you can eat while watching a presentation
22 22:51:00 auchter but the presenter can't...
22 22:51:00 andy753421 meh
22 22:51:00 andy753421 i suppose they could try
22 23:40:00 Blazeix hi, I emailed Mellor earlier today, and he said the pizza was on for LUG
22 23:41:00 auchter excellent news indeed
22 23:41:00 Blazeix I'll send out an email reminding people of the officer vote + pizza tomorrow
22 23:47:00 auchter Blazeix: also ask if anyone would be willing to givea presentation if you haven't sent it out yet
22 23:48:00 Blazeix auchter, o.k.
23 16:31:00 Blazeix Has anyone actually read the cosmogirl article on the main rose webpage?
23 16:40:00 auchter is it as horrible as i would expect?
23 16:52:00 Blazeix yeah, but there's a weird quote in there
23 16:52:00 Blazeix Also helping Rose-Hulman cause is the fact that the college offers two of the top five most attractive career fields for women -- computer science (No. 1) and chemical engineering (No. 5)
23 16:53:00 Blazeix Since when has computer science been the No. 1 career choice for women?
23 16:53:00 andy753421 since companies care about diversity?
23 16:53:00 Blazeix I must be at the wrong school.
24 00:49:00 tommost Have we found a speaker for tomorrow?
24 00:54:00 Blazeix I don't think so
24 01:02:00 auchter well, we should choose a speaker on the basis of whoever has spoken in the last 20 minutes and has not given a presentation
24 01:03:00 auchter or rather, a new game
24 01:04:00 auchter the next person to join gives a presentation
24 01:04:00 auchter however, judging by the last "leaving" message, that will probably be andy, who has already presented a few times
24 01:04:00 Morasique if blazeix weren't already here i would trick him into joining. too bad
24 01:05:00 TheRoot btw, I'm not presenting tomorrow. :P
24 01:05:00 auchter Blazeix gave a presentation already though
24 01:05:00 Morasique true
24 01:06:00 auchter TheRoot: a splendid idea indeed. what topic will you be presenting on?
24 01:07:00 auchter apparently my strategy of reading what i want to read is not actually modifying reality
24 01:07:00 TheRoot yeah, I'm going to stick by what I actually said.
24 01:08:00 TheRoot I may be a tad high, but I'm not THAT far gone. :P
24 01:24:00 TheRoot (1:04:19 AM) auchter: the next person to join gives a presentation
24 01:24:00 TheRoot grats, andy753421.
24 01:24:00 andy753421 i gave a presentation last wee
24 01:24:00 andy753421 k
24 01:24:00 TheRoot shrugs.
24 01:25:00 TheRoot I'm hitting the sack.
24 01:29:00 tommost I vote that we make this "get suspend working under Ubuntu on the nw8440" week.
24 01:29:00 tommost People have asked me about that.
24 01:30:00 andy753421 I neither use ubuntu or have a mw8440
24 01:32:00 tommost But as a Linux advocate, you feel an irksome responsibility to help make the experience better for new users. ;-)
24 01:33:00 auchter i contend that suspend to ram is impossible on the nw8440
24 01:34:00 tommost How so? And what about suspend to disk?
24 01:35:00 auchter suspend to disk is relatively straightforward, just use suspend2
24 01:35:00 auchter but i was never able to get suspend to ram working
24 01:36:00 tommost There is no suspend2 package. Is that the correct name?
24 01:37:00 auchter it's a kernel patch
24 01:37:00 auchter at least it was, perhaps it's been merged since the last time i used it....
24 01:37:00 tommost So I need to patch my kernel to suspend? That's silly.
24 01:37:00 tommost Yeah, there is supposed to be suspend machinery built into the current kernel.
24 01:39:00 auchter http://www.tuxonice.net/
24 01:39:00 auchter apparently suspend2 changed names
24 01:48:00 tommost Well, that didn't work.
24 02:05:00 andy753421 apparently suspend to ram doesn't work on the M70's either
24 15:28:00 octavious heh. i wont be able to attend the meeting today
24 15:32:00 TheRoot I'm not coming either. too much stuff to do.
24 15:33:00 Morasique but there's bribes of free pizza :)
24 15:33:00 TheRoot too late, I've already left campus. :P
24 15:39:00 octavious i would come but i have dinner with a potential employer
24 15:39:00 octavious kind of important
24 15:39:00 andy753421 invite him to the lab for pizza :P
24 15:40:00 Morasique you have to make a choice between work and lug. alternatively, you have to make a choice between work and pizza. whichever is closer
24 15:42:00 Morasique i have a question for juniors; do your batteries suck now? mine is at 38% maximum capacity, which seems worse than normal usage, but i don't really know
24 15:44:00 andy753421 /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/{info,state}
24 15:44:00 octavious well mine sucks because it doesnt sit in my case well
24 15:44:00 andy753421 for me: last-full=6140mAh
24 15:44:00 octavious it will fall out unexpectedly which renders it nearly useless
24 15:45:00 Morasique wow. mine is 2738mAh. that's depressing
24 15:45:00 auchter last full capacity: 1 mAh
24 15:45:00 auchter i hate you all.
24 21:36:00 collinjc Auchter: Does your $80 a month include cable for TV?
24 21:37:00 auchter collinjc: no, i don't believe so
24 21:40:00 collinjc hmm, okay
25 00:14:00 andy753421 so I don't really know what happened with my computer
25 00:14:00 andy753421 but I blame my router
25 00:14:00 andy753421 my desktop kicked off, then when I got back to skinner I was looking at that and everything seemed fine
25 00:15:00 andy753421 although, I didn't have a screen hooked up so the only output device I had was the hard disk light
25 00:15:00 andy753421 then after about 10 minutes of debugging my laptops kicked off and my roommates wireless kicked off as well
25 00:16:00 andy753421 so I ended up power cycling the router and then everything started working again
25 00:17:00 andy753421 i think i'm going to switch back to the original firmware on the router though
25 00:17:00 andy753421 dd-wrt doesn't seem all that stable
25 00:19:00 Zeta_RHIT I had some problems with a dd-wrt setup recently too
25 00:19:00 auchter shame that there's not an openbsd port to it
25 00:19:00 Zeta_RHIT The latest versions seem highly unstable
25 00:19:00 Zeta_RHIT I've gone back to default firmware *cringe* until I can reload hyperwrt this weekend
25 00:20:00 andy753421 yea, i ended up getting one of the crappy new versions, so you can't run much on it
25 00:20:00 andy753421 openwrt isn't supported, otherwise i'd be using that
25 00:20:00 Zeta_RHIT eh.. support
25 00:20:00 Zeta_RHIT is it a 54g?
25 00:21:00 Zeta_RHIT *wrt54g
25 00:21:00 andy753421 yea
25 00:21:00 Zeta_RHIT It's been a bit since I had the hyperwrt firmware on mine now, but it was quite stable and good
25 00:22:00 Zeta_RHIT almost as many features as dd-wrt
25 00:22:00 Zeta_RHIT though dd is just insane now
25 00:22:00 andy753421 Zeta_RHIT: what version do you have?
25 00:22:00 Zeta_RHIT lemme look
25 00:22:00 Zeta_RHIT hyperwrt_g_thibor14
25 00:23:00 andy753421 er, what version of router
25 00:23:00 Zeta_RHIT I don't have it loaded atm, but it worked nice for me for about a year and a half
25 00:23:00 Zeta_RHIT rev 4, I believe
25 00:23:00 Zeta_RHIT the version right before they screwed it
25 00:23:00 andy753421 yea, i've got the version after they screwed it :(
25 00:23:00 Zeta_RHIT what rev?
25 00:23:00 andy753421 got it off e-bay and it said it was version 4 in the title, but it ended up being version 11 or something stupid
25 00:24:00 Zeta_RHIT ick
25 00:24:00 andy753421 and I didn't feel like complaining and trying to get him to take it back
25 00:24:00 Zeta_RHIT yeah, ebay's like that :(
25 00:25:00 Zeta_RHIT looks like they're up to rev 8
25 00:25:00 auchter sell it on ebay, buy this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120212888605
25 00:25:00 auchter install distro of choice and use iptables (since you have crazy zsh tab completion)
25 00:26:00 auchter or be sane and use openbsd on it... i ran openbsd on a soekris net4521 for two years with no problems at all
25 00:26:00 andy753421 does that have wireless?
25 00:27:00 auchter nope, but with the addition of a wireless minipci or pci card it can
25 00:27:00 Zeta_RHIT seconds that question, as it didn't look like it
25 00:27:00 Zeta_RHIT nods
25 00:27:00 auchter i was under the impression we were talking about routers, not access points... sorry about that then
25 00:28:00 Zeta_RHIT meh, np :)
25 00:29:00 auchter plus, with this you could run fakeap and confuse everyone around you...
25 00:29:00 Zeta_RHIT heh
25 00:30:00 andy753421 I was going to buy a nice router/ap once 802.11n gets standardized, but I didn't want to purchase anything until then
25 00:30:00 andy753421 fakeap?
25 00:30:00 tommost http://www.blackalchemy.to/project/fakeap/
25 00:30:00 auchter http://www.blackalchemy.to/project/fakeap/
25 00:30:00 auchter heh.
25 00:30:00 tommost Heh.
25 00:31:00 Zeta_RHIT that is crazy awesome
25 00:31:00 Morasique i thought i was a geek for using rockbox on my mp3 player, but this conversation has completely changed my mind
25 00:32:00 octavious i use openwrt on my 54g
25 00:32:00 auchter Morasique: i run linux on my ipod, and once used it as a serial console.
25 00:32:00 Zeta_RHIT for the love of god... a serial console? with that input mechanism?
25 00:32:00 Zeta_RHIT cringes so hard his back hurts
25 00:32:00 auchter i didn't say it was practical... i just did it, haha
25 00:33:00 Blazeix hmm. I should run that fakeap in my dorm.
25 00:33:00 auchter you would cringe even more at the level shifter i used
25 00:33:00 auchter since the ipod remote is ttl... it was scary.
25 00:33:00 Zeta_RHIT ewwwwww
25 00:34:00 auchter ewww at rs-232 and it's illogical signal levels
25 00:34:00 Zeta_RHIT what's it run on again? 15?
25 00:34:00 Zeta_RHIT I don't recall exactly
25 00:34:00 auchter -3 to -12v is 1
25 00:34:00 auchter 3 to 12v is 0
25 00:34:00 Zeta_RHIT Ah, okay
25 00:34:00 auchter or something around there... 15 would probably work
25 00:35:00 Morasique this conversation turned to scary cpe topics i don't understand rapidly
25 00:35:00 Zeta_RHIT I thought they wanted a massive voltage change for distance runs, but that doesn't even make sense :/
25 00:35:00 Zeta_RHIT heh
25 00:36:00 auchter if it was differential it would
25 00:36:00 auchter but, that's what rs-485 is for
25 00:36:00 Zeta_RHIT (random SEs: another serial protocol)
25 00:36:00 Zeta_RHIT well, spec anyways
25 00:37:00 tommost Hey, I know what RS-485 is.
25 00:37:00 Zeta_RHIT sweet
25 00:37:00 Blazeix I was going to suggest that the rs-485 translates using megahurtz into -3 to -12 signal to noise ratio using capacitors.
25 00:38:00 Zeta_RHIT makes a gesture that implies that Blaziex may soon experience megahurtz for talking like that :P
25 00:38:00 Morasique blazeix: are you crazy, the gigaflops would cause a cascading power fluctuation
25 00:38:00 Morasique ......idiot
25 00:39:00 andy753421 speaking of serial consoles, does anyone have experience run login on a serial port?
25 00:39:00 andy753421 it would be quite nice to be able to log into my server over serial when the net is out
25 00:39:00 Morasique i wish luglog was still down, somebody a potential employer will stumble across this and decide they should find someone else
25 00:39:00 auchter can't you just run agetty /dev/ttyS0
25 00:41:00 andy753421 auchter: maybe, i don't know, I think I would have to set up stuff like baud rates and such
25 00:42:00 auchter ah, looking at the man page, seems that you're right
25 00:42:00 andy753421 http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Linux_serial_console
25 00:42:00 auchter agetty /dev/ttyS0 19200 should work i would think
25 00:43:00 andy753421 haha "You should make a visual inspection and make sure that you have one or more serial ports on your motherboard or ad-in PCI card."
25 00:43:00 auchter i would maybe expect that from an ubuntu wiki, haha
25 00:44:00 tommost WTF?
25 00:45:00 Morasique at least they didn't describe what to look for
25 00:46:00 andy753421 hm. need to build the serial kernel module first
25 00:46:00 andy753421 and then find a serial cable
25 00:47:00 auchter robotics lab has a ton that no one is using
25 00:47:00 andy753421 yea, maybe I can steal that big one we used to tie the plane to the wall
25 00:47:00 andy753421 i could log in all they way across our apartment
25 00:47:00 auchter i think we have wireless rs-232 modems as well, haha
25 00:51:00 tommost Or use serial over Bluetooth.
25 00:52:00 auchter last i checked that was a bit expensive, have they come down in price in recent years?
25 00:59:00 octavious howd things go today?
25 01:02:00 auchter well, you missed out on some deliciously free pizza
25 01:05:00 octavious damn.
25 01:43:00 andy753421 In other news: http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_2_6_24
25 01:52:00 octavious nice transition
25 01:55:00 auchter http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commit;h=a80d923e1321a7ed69a0918de37e39871bb536a0
25 01:57:00 andy753421 so does that mean we can now implement 8l?
25 01:57:00 andy753421 er, IL
25 01:58:00 auchter hm?
25 01:59:00 andy753421 an old TCPish protocol that 9P originally used
25 01:59:00 auchter ah internet link
25 01:59:00 auchter the 8l made me think of the linker
25 02:01:00 andy753421 yea, i got those two confused for a second
25 02:01:00 auchter what i was getting at is that it should be possible to make it use i2c as a transport relatively easily
25 02:02:00 andy753421 ah, ok
25 02:02:00 andy753421 doesn't know anything about i2c
25 02:03:00 auchter you can take a look at the wiki page if you'd like, it's kind of interesting
25 02:04:00 andy753421 wikipedia?
25 02:04:00 auchter yeah, probably should have specified that
25 02:05:00 andy753421 meh, maybe i'll deal with that later
25 02:06:00 andy753421 I should probably be doing homework
25 02:06:00 andy753421 but this [http://lwn.net/Articles/252562/] look interesting as well
25 02:07:00 auchter this written assignment is killing me, speaking of homework
25 03:50:00 auchter it's -1 degrees outside, and i have to drive over to campus to turn in an assignment
25 03:50:00 auchter i'm shivering at the thought of doing this
25 04:01:00 octavious it is definitely frigid
25 04:01:00 octavious just walked in
25 04:16:00 auchter yes, that was not a fun ride at all.
25 04:16:00 auchter heh, three people still in the labs
25 04:47:00 octavious heh
25 04:47:00 octavious why am i still up?
25 04:47:00 octavious oh yeah. i have a SHITTON to DO.
25 04:48:00 octavious and angel's broken yay
25 04:50:00 octavious looks like the Sql server must be down.
25 04:56:00 auchter heh, wow
25 17:04:00 kleinjt Does anyone have a presentation for next week? I'm considering preparing one.
25 17:09:00 auchter kleinjt: nope, not yet
25 17:09:00 auchter kleinjt: what are you considering?
25 17:26:00 auchter so, fun times configuring new kernel
25 17:27:00 andy753421 how so?
25 17:28:00 auchter all these new options, it's exciting
25 17:28:00 andy753421 heheh, not as exciting as when they moved all the IDE stuff into the scsi section ;)
25 17:44:00 auchter
25 17:52:00 andy753421 kleinjt: presentation?
25 17:54:00 kleinjt I was thinking about stupid python tricks.
25 17:54:00 andy753421 heh heh, sounds good
25 17:55:00 kleinjt lambda, map, that sort of thing
25 17:55:00 andy753421 make sure you do some intro stuff though since I don't think many of the LUG members know python
25 17:55:00 andy753421 or, we could do a scripting language flame war =D
25 17:56:00 andy753421 you could do python, i could do ruby, and mike could do perl :)
25 17:56:00 tommost Rob suggests Scheme.
25 17:56:00 andy753421 that's not a scripting language, but yea, we could do that too
25 17:57:00 tommost Does anyone have an old computer (suitable for use as a server) for sale/to give away? Rob's feeling a need to join the club.
25 17:57:00 andy753421 well, i guess it sort of is, we could probably get chris to do scheme
25 17:57:00 andy753421 i can see that taking a lot longer than an hour though
25 17:58:00 kleinjt we could have it as a series or something, one presentation a week. that way we'd have presentations line up for awhile
25 17:58:00 tommost I'd like to contribute on the Python front.
25 17:58:00 andy753421 hehe, we could have a 'month of scripting languages'
25 17:59:00 andy753421 and invite curt
25 17:59:00 auchter i'd be up for that
25 17:59:00 auchter curt's a bash scripter, right?
25 17:59:00 andy753421 auchter: He uses it
25 18:00:00 andy753421 not sure how extensively
25 18:01:00 andy753421 this is actually sounding like a good idea, i might start a wiki page
25 18:03:00 auchter i'd be interested in seeing a presentation on awk basics, too
25 18:05:00 kleinjt so far what I've prepared is focusing on stupid tricks with python, I don't know enough other programming languages to provide meaning insight into comparing it with other languages
25 18:06:00 auchter time to see how many crucial things I forgot when configuring this kernel...
25 18:07:00 andy753421 auchter: what version are you upgrading from?
25 18:14:00 andy753421 http://lug.phire.org/index.php/Scripting_Languages_%28series%29
25 18:17:00 auchter andy753421: 2.6.22.6
25 18:17:00 auchter and it is unable to mount root... i'll deal with that after i eat, a quick look over my config looks fine though
25 18:23:00 auchter for shell, i could give a quick overview of rc, but i don't know how many people would be intereted in it
25 18:23:00 andy753421 go for it
25 18:24:00 andy753421 if they're not interested, heh heh, it's their own fault
25 18:24:00 tommost At some point someone should do an overview of the various shells. I know that there are lots of them are out there, but I don't know the advantages/disadvantages to switching to an alternate shell.
25 18:25:00 andy753421 :/ all I know is sh/bash/zsh which are all fairly similar
25 18:25:00 auchter that's actually not a bad idea
25 18:25:00 andy753421 hehe, 'nother wiki page
25 18:28:00 andy753421 ok, i modified the presentations page to have a section for ideas for future presentations
25 18:38:00 auchter http://www.cio.com/article/175450/You_Used_Perl_to_Write_WHAT_/1
25 18:41:00 Morasique i think there was a zsh presentation awhile ago, although it didn't get into much zsh-specific stuff
25 21:51:00 tommost In the CSSE TA application form, what exactly does "lab assisting" consist of?
25 21:51:00 Morasique you sit in the lab and if people need help on stuff they come there and you help them
25 21:51:00 Morasique sometimes they'll make you grade if you're not doing anything during lab hours, other times they let you do whatever you want
25 21:52:00 tommost Oh, okay. Thanks.
26 00:48:00 octavious am i crazy? every night i dream of wolves eating my fingers.....
26 00:54:00 Blazeix octavious: yes.
26 01:02:00 auchter octavious: your dreams are entertaining. like the epic "Samuel L. Jackson can make Subway sandwiches" one.
26 01:07:00 octavious hah. that one was awesome
26 16:25:00 auchter kleinjt: do you have any avrs we could use that would just receive data over i2c and output to rs-232?
26 16:29:00 kleinjt auchter: the cheapest AVR with 2 hardware USARTS that I know of is the ATmega164, which is a 40 pin DIP :/
26 16:30:00 auchter i wasn
26 16:30:00 auchter 't talking about permanent use, i was just wondering if you had anything on hand that we could use for debugging
26 16:31:00 kleinjt auchter: oh, uh.. none of the ones I own have more than one hardware usart channel. if one of them was done in software, sure, I guess
26 16:31:00 auchter i'll check on the pics that we have
26 16:32:00 kleinjt http://www.harbaum.org/till/i2c_tiny_usb/index.shtml
26 16:33:00 kleinjt I have a few ATtiny45s
26 16:34:00 kleinjt and uh.. that linked project looks pretty useful too
26 16:34:00 rr72 FYI: on the powerpoint today you guys were on the list of activities/clubs
26 16:34:00 auchter i'll take a look at it more indepth, but what i need is something to act as an i2c client
26 16:35:00 auchter which the linux i2c drivers cannot do
26 16:35:00 kleinjt oh, ok
26 16:35:00 auchter so i just want something that echos all i2c messages recieved to a serial console, since looking at i2c with an oscope makes my head hurt after a while
26 16:36:00 auchter but yeah, this looks better than the parallel port/oc inverter adapter that i was planning on using
26 16:36:00 auchter i'll probably still use it for testing, since it's so simple, but if you want to build one of these that'd be great
26 16:38:00 kleinjt I'm not sure how well USB will do on breadboards, but, I'll give it a shot
26 16:39:00 auchter i'd just do a layout in eagle and we can get the board made.
26 16:39:00 kleinjt ok
26 16:39:00 auchter or hell, just take his layout.
26 16:40:00 kleinjt ok, he did not release eagle files, so we will have to make it. uh.. I'll get it up on the SVN some time before the next meeting
26 16:40:00 auchter yeah, i just noticed that.
26 16:41:00 auchter there's not a huge rush on it. i'm going to finish off the motor controller today and have you take a look over it
26 16:48:00 auchter kleinjt: do you like doing part layouts as much as board layouts?
26 16:48:00 kleinjt auchter: part layouts?
26 16:49:00 auchter for packages other than to-220, for example
26 16:49:00 kleinjt I don't remember how to make parts..
26 16:49:00 auchter i don't either, haha.
26 16:50:00 auchter well, if you get bored/want to try, i can't seem to find a part for this: http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Part_Numbers/0750/
26 16:50:00 auchter it's pretty much to-220 with those two massive pins on top.
26 18:03:00 auchter include files that include other include files suck.
26 20:38:00 Blazeix auchter, you use xmonad, right?
26 20:58:00 auchter Blazeix: no, i use dwm
26 22:03:00 tommost Does anyone here use Greasemonkey?
26 22:35:00 tommost I guess that's a no.
26 22:36:00 tommost Anyway, I've created a stylesheet for the LUG wiki and I'm interested in comments on the design. The design can be viewed with the Greasemonkey script at http://www.rose-hulman.edu/~mosttw/lug/style-switcher.user.js
26 22:40:00 auchter tommost: that looks pretty awesome to me.
26 22:40:00 tommost Thanks.
26 22:41:00 auchter although i'm not sure about the compass rose
26 22:42:00 auchter yeah, that's a huge improvement over the current one
26 22:42:00 tommost Yeah, I couldn't find a decent rose image that I could use.
26 22:42:00 tommost So I went for the pun.
26 22:43:00 tommost I take it that the symbols along the bottom display correctly, then?
26 22:43:00 auchter yeah, i only got the pun after i typed it
26 22:43:00 auchter actually, the one next to "edit" doesn't display properly or me
26 22:43:00 auchter s/or/for/
26 22:43:00 tommost Ah, yeah. It's a hammer and pick... I figured that it might be a bit obscure.
26 22:44:00 tommost Unicode has symbols for a ridiculous number of things, BTW.
26 22:45:00 auchter indeed it does.
26 22:47:00 auchter hmm, there's some weirdness at the bottom for me at times... i'll see if i can get a screencap
26 22:51:00 auchter http://freya.phire.org/images/2008-01-26-224542_1920x1200_scrot.png
26 22:52:00 tommost Is that always there?
26 22:52:00 tommost Or just when you mouseover?
26 22:52:00 auchter just during mouseover
26 22:53:00 tommost Okay, yeah. I've noticed that too. It seems to be a Firefox rendering error... it's fixed in Gran Paradiso alpha 3.
26 22:53:00 auchter ah, alright
26 22:53:00 auchter not a big deal really
26 22:54:00 tommost That's what I figured. There are some other Firefox 2-only glitches.
26 22:54:00 tommost This design is completely non-operative in Internet Explorer, of course. :-D
26 22:54:00 auchter i don't think that anyone uses it anymore
26 22:54:00 tommost We can just stick it in some conditional comments so that IE gets the original monobook style.
26 22:55:00 auchter http://freya.phire.org/images/2008-01-26-225148_1920x1200_scrot.png
26 22:56:00 auchter looks fine in dillo...
26 22:56:00 tommost It should... it doesn't modify the markup in any way. I used a lot of CSS generated content.
26 22:57:00 auchter hah, yeah, it was more of a joke (a sad one, admittedly)
26 22:58:00 andy753421 hm, i think i like having edit/discuss links at the top.. also, login/logout is almost always at the top right isn't it?
26 22:59:00 andy753421 but it does look pretty
26 22:59:00 tommost Originally I wanted that stuff at the top. Trouble is, there isn't much of a place to put them that doesn't mess up the cleanness up there.
26 23:00:00 tommost All of the other stuff I stuck in dropdown/up menus is stuff that I simply never use. Does anyone?
26 23:00:00 andy753421 i use it
26 23:01:00 tommost Which ones? Several of them are links to empty pages.
26 23:01:00 andy753421 recent changes, main page, special pages
26 23:01:00 auchter i use "Recent Changes" more than anything
26 23:01:00 andy753421 upload file
26 23:02:00 andy753421 thinks tom is getting corrupted by Apple
26 23:02:00 auchter haha, is the symbol for the menu Knuth's up arrow?
26 23:02:00 tommost Inkscape, rather. That's why it ended up all vector-why.
26 23:03:00 tommost Knuth's up arrow?
26 23:03:00 auchter his symbol for iterated exponentiation
26 23:03:00 auchter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knuth's_up-arrow_notation
26 23:03:00 tommost I was just using an upward-pointing arrow.
26 23:05:00 andy753421 main page link is a bit useless though, since you can click on the banner
26 23:06:00 tommost Yeah.
26 23:06:00 tommost And there are accesskeys for all of those things, anyway.
26 23:09:00 tommost I am rather proud of using the divorce symbol for "Move."
26 23:11:00 Blazeix tommost: move?
26 23:11:00 tommost Fifth link from the bottom left.
26 23:13:00 tommost Can anyone think of a symbol that would work well for the discussion link?
26 23:13:00 tommost Right now it's the symbol for "therefore".
26 23:19:00 tommost OMG there's a symbol for a benzene ring.
26 23:22:00 tommost Open Gucharmap. Go to U+23b0. Look at the character details.
26 23:22:00 tommost Another benzene ring!
26 23:23:00 andy753421 tommost: what font are you using?
26 23:23:00 tommost Lohit Tamil.
26 23:24:00 tommost I could use the wheel of Dharma for the discussion link.
26 23:26:00 Blazeix tommost: what about the "scales" symbol for the discussion?
26 23:26:00 tommost Good idea.
26 23:27:00 auchter http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1335&dDocName=en026447
26 23:27:00 auchter so, who wants to use ethernet instead of i2c on the robot?
26 23:28:00 tommost Blazeix: I don't know. It's kind of complex compared to the rest of them--difficult to tell what it is, even once I increase the size.
26 23:31:00 Blazeix yeah, I could see that not scaling well.
26 23:32:00 Blazeix ooh, bad pun.
26 23:32:00 tommost claps
26 23:34:00 tommost I changed the menu symbol to be double up arrows... the Knuth reference is too good to miss.
26 23:34:00 auchter haha, excellent
26 23:35:00 auchter http://geekz.co.uk/shop/store/show/knuth-sticker-0
26 23:35:00 auchter if only shipping wasn't so much...
26 23:35:00 auchter http://geekz.co.uk/shop/store/show/che-stallman-sticker
26 23:36:00 auchter that as well... perhaps a LUG group buy could happen...
26 23:36:00 tommost Aye.
26 23:38:00 auchter it'd work out to ~$2/sticker if 9 of each were purchased.
26 23:39:00 tommost I'm particularly fond of the Schneier t-shirt.
26 23:40:00 auchter have you seen this: http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/
26 23:40:00 tommost Yup.
27 00:01:00 auchter ioctls are dumb.
27 00:09:00 tommost How so?
27 00:10:00 andy753421 Exhibit A: $ man ioctl
27 00:10:00 auchter that's a good start indeed.
27 00:11:00 tommost I don't have that man page. I did read the Wikipedia article. It sounds like a mess, but how else would you do it?
27 00:11:00 auchter have a special file dedicated to that purpose.
27 00:11:00 tommost Oh, good point.
27 00:12:00 auchter like, for the i2c-dev module, it creates an entry /dev/i2c-0 to communicate with the i2c bus
27 00:13:00 auchter you need to use a bloody ioctl to specify which client you want to talk to
27 00:13:00 auchter that's an incredibly stupid use of them.
27 00:16:00 tommost Damn.
27 04:52:00 andy753421 http://lug.phire.org/index.php?title=Main_Page&useskin=tom
27 11:34:00 zumbrujm hey guys, I got the cube to work on ubuntu
27 11:35:00 zumbrujm the wiki is awesome
27 11:35:00 zumbrujm does anybody know how to get desktops to appear on the top and bottom as well?
27 11:36:00 Morasique i don't think you can, if you enable cube caps you can put pictures there, that's about it
27 11:36:00 zumbrujm oh
27 11:36:00 zumbrujm I see
27 11:36:00 zumbrujm Alright, I'll put some picture there then
27 11:36:00 zumbrujm thanks.
27 14:16:00 auchter so, my computer lags horribly when using tom's skin for the wiki. does firefox's rendering just suck that much?
27 14:18:00 Blazeix I had a bit of lag too, but I was using greasemonkey, so I attributed it to that.
27 14:18:00 auchter scrolling through the course list page is horrible on my machine
27 14:19:00 tommost I don't have that problem. Have you tried it with Epiphany?
27 14:19:00 andy753421 it's because of the transparency
27 14:20:00 kleinjt I'm having lag too, I'm using switftweasel
27 14:23:00 auchter i haven't tried ephiphany (that requires gnome, iirc, so that's not a possibility), but it feels about the same speed as angel when browsing it
27 14:24:00 bolandmg Oh Lawd
27 14:24:00 auchter shame, too, as it looks so much nicer
27 14:24:00 bolandmg It's very nice looking but it's very slow.
27 14:26:00 tommost Do you have smooth scrolling on?
27 14:27:00 bolandmg I don't.
27 19:34:00 tommost Anyone know how to disassemble a PDF document?
27 19:36:00 TheRoot not off the top of my head, no.
27 19:36:00 TheRoot I know there's some free website services that can do it.
27 19:37:00 auchter what do you mean by disassemble?
27 19:37:00 tommost Is there any keyword you could suggest that I search for? Any search with "PDF" in it turns up a lot of false results.
27 19:38:00 tommost Like extract an image without recompressing it.
27 19:40:00 TheRoot that's easy if you want to be hackish about it.
27 19:40:00 TheRoot open the pdf, set zoom to 100%, screen cap it.
27 19:40:00 tommost That would involve recompressing it.
27 19:41:00 tommost Going through JPEG twice is bad.
27 20:03:00 povilus-desktop how do you change the font size for the whole document in latex?
27 20:06:00 Morasique it's usually in the doc class options
27 20:10:00 auchter yeah, something of the form documentclass[12pt]{article}
27 20:11:00 povilus-desktop thanx
27 20:48:00 koshi hello
27 20:48:00 koshi anyone abour
27 20:48:00 koshi about* sry typing with one hand
27 20:49:00 Blazeix what's up?
27 20:50:00 koshi im trying to install ubuntu and something went wrong when i tryed to partition my hd
27 20:50:00 koshi im using the nw8440
27 20:51:00 koshi i got an error that says i need to do something in windows but windows isnt um working now :s
27 20:51:00 koshi i need to run chkdsk f
27 20:52:00 Morasique koshi: when you boot into windows it should automatically run the disk checker, let it finish and you should be fine
27 20:52:00 koshi any idea what went wrong :s
27 20:53:00 koshi when i try to run windows i get a blank screen with an underscore
27 20:53:00 koshi that blinks, and that's it :s
27 20:54:00 Morasique do you get anything like the windows loading screen, or does that happen immediately
27 20:54:00 koshi it happens before the windows loading screen
27 20:54:00 koshi the f10 f9 option is just before it
27 20:54:00 koshi for um
27 20:55:00 Blazeix Do you happen to know what your current disk partitioning layout is?
27 20:55:00 koshi boot menu and whatever that other thing is
27 20:55:00 Morasique are you booting off a live cd right now?
27 20:55:00 koshi yes
27 20:57:00 koshi i dont know how it's partitioned now :s in the partition editor it has a yellow warning symbol next to the /dev/sda1 partition
27 20:57:00 koshi and it says to run chkdsk /f in windows
27 20:58:00 Morasique did windows work before you started this or was it already broken
27 20:58:00 koshi it was working fine
27 21:00:00 Blazeix koshi, do you have your windows cd that came with your laptop?
27 21:00:00 koshi http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/334/screenshotdevsdagpartedov8.png
27 21:00:00 koshi it came with a cd?
27 21:01:00 koshi i can check
27 21:01:00 Blazeix well, I know the junior laptop model did, I'm not sure about the sophomore or freshman models.
27 21:03:00 Blazeix If you can find the windows xp cd, you can boot into the recovery console and fix it from there.
27 21:03:00 koshi no we didn't get that :s
27 21:03:00 Morasique do you know how to open a terminal?
27 21:04:00 koshi yea
27 21:04:00 Morasique try this command: mkdir ~/win;sudo mount -t ntfs /dev/sda1 ~/win;ls ~/win
27 21:05:00 koshi failed to mount /dev/sda
27 21:05:00 koshi sda18
27 21:06:00 koshi sda1**
27 21:06:00 koshi it gives the same error the warning in the partition editor
27 21:07:00 Morasique andy753421: koshi is having a problem with his windows install after starting an ubuntu install, i'm not sure what's wrong, but if you're not busy you can check the log
27 21:08:00 Morasique it's saying his ntfs partition has it's dirty bit set, but he can't boot into windows anymore to fix it
27 21:09:00 andy753421 koshi: i'm actually pretty busy right now
27 21:09:00 koshi okay
27 21:10:00 andy753421 koshi: i'll help out when I get a chance, but it might be an hour or two
27 21:10:00 koshi alright
27 21:18:00 Morasique andy might have an idea when he gets back, but your best bet is probably to get your hands on a windows recovery cd
27 21:18:00 koshi the nw8440 support the amd64b version right :s
27 21:19:00 Blazeix I believe I think freshman laptops are 64 bit, sophomore's aren't
27 21:20:00 koshi 2 32 bit processors
27 21:20:00 koshi :s
27 21:21:00 Blazeix koshi, they have dual core, but not 2 separate processors
27 21:21:00 koshi oh
27 21:23:00 koshi i wondered how that worked
27 21:29:00 andy753421 koshi: I remember someone having a similar problem during the installfest. Run fdisk -l and see if the size of the windows partition is 1 block larger than the disk.
27 21:29:00 andy753421 that's what was happening to them, if so, i don't think we figured out a good way to get it fixed
27 21:30:00 andy753421 anyway, i got to go to a team meeting
27 21:36:00 koshi just says device:/dev/sda1, boot: *, start: 1, end: 12161, blocks: 97683201, id: 7, system: npfs/ntfs
27 21:38:00 Blazeix Can you paste the 2nd line of the header? (should start with something like "XXX heads, XX, sectors/track")
27 21:40:00 koshi disk /dev/sda: 100gb, 100030242816 bytes 255 heads, 63 sectores/track, 12161 cylinders Units = cylinders of 16065*512=8225280 bytes disk identifier: 0x95aa95aa
27 21:41:00 Blazeix Well, you don't have the problem that andy was talking about
27 21:41:00 Blazeix It'd be easy to fix if you could lay your hands on a windows xp cd
27 21:42:00 Blazeix But i'm not sure of a way under linux.
27 21:42:00 koshi k
27 21:43:00 Blazeix You could probably borrow anyone's XP cd and it would work. You just need access to the "recovery console" portion of the XP cd.
27 22:04:00 andy753421 koshi: there's a command called 'ntfsfix' that might help but i haven't really had much success with it
27 22:06:00 tommost Is there a way to force sshfs to unmount? (My crummy wireless AP keeps dropping connections.)
27 22:08:00 Blazeix tommost: the man page for umount talks about a "-f" for force option. It mentions that it is nice for unreachable NFS systems.
27 22:08:00 Blazeix I've never used it, though
27 22:08:00 tommost Okay, thanks. I'll try that the next time my connection drops (probably about ten minutes from now).
27 22:36:00 koshi it says failed to determine wheither /f is mounted
27 22:36:00 koshi and to run chkdsk
27 22:37:00 Blazeix koshi, what does? ntfsfix?
27 22:37:00 koshi yeah
27 22:38:00 Blazeix what was the command you typed in?
27 22:39:00 koshi im waiting for my sa to get back, he prob has a startup disk for xp
27 22:39:00 koshi ntfsfix /f
27 22:40:00 Blazeix There are a few steps you need to do with ntfs fix. first make sure that your ntfs partition is mounted.
27 22:40:00 Blazeix wait, isn't mounted, sorry
27 22:40:00 koshi how would i do that
27 22:40:00 Blazeix type 'mount' and it will list the mounted partitions
27 22:40:00 Blazeix make sure /dev/sda1 isn't in the list
27 22:41:00 koshi k it's not
27 22:42:00 Blazeix o.k., now type 'ntfsfix /dev/sda1' for it to process your disk
27 22:42:00 koshi /dev is though
27 22:42:00 Blazeix that's o.k.
27 22:42:00 koshi it says volume is corrupt and i should run chkdsk
27 22:43:00 koshi error opening partition device : permission denied
27 22:43:00 koshi failed to startup volume
27 22:43:00 Morasique blazeix: do you have to sudo it so it can access /dev?
27 22:43:00 Blazeix I think so.
27 22:43:00 koshi k
27 22:43:00 Blazeix Although I'm not sure if it will affect the 'chkdsk' message
27 22:44:00 koshi mounting volume .. failed, comparing $mftmirr to $mft failed
27 22:44:00 koshi $mftmirr err: invalid mft record for $mft
27 22:44:00 Blazeix its sounding more and more like you should find a windows xp disk.
27 22:45:00 koshi k
27 23:35:00 povilusr anyone know bib files for latex?
27 23:36:00 povilusr i did pdflatex file
27 23:36:00 povilusr bibtex file
27 23:36:00 povilusr its now throwing
27 23:36:00 povilusr Package: `setspace' 6.7 <2000/12/01>
27 23:36:00 povilusr ) (./essay1.aux)
27 23:36:00 povilusr ! Undefined control sequence.
27 23:36:00 povilusr b@ManDreams ->citeauthoryear
27 23:36:00 povilusr {that chick}{that chick}{1990}
27 23:36:00 povilusr l.18 ...es whould be stopped...'' cite{ManDreams}
27 23:36:00 povilusr This was his penulitimate...
27 23:36:00 povilusr ? q
27 23:36:00 povilusr on the 2nd pdflatexfile
27 23:37:00 auchter what was the exact bibtex command you ran? (including file name)
27 23:37:00 povilusr bibtex essay1.tex
27 23:37:00 povilusr er
27 23:37:00 povilusr bibtex ./essay1.aux
27 23:38:00 povilusr heres the line its complaning about
27 23:38:00 povilusr parents were wrong and he outwardly dissagreed with them which is directally against the ideals of confucanism. Liu also dreamed of serving the emporer directally, as he says in his diary, `` The other officals were silent and had nothing to say, so I alone stoof forth to speak, presenting detailed proposals that the present abuses such as the selling of goverment offices whould be stopped...'' cite{ManDreams} This was his penulitimate
27 23:38:00 povilusr and the bib entry@BOOK{ManDreams, title={A man awakend from dreams},author={that chick},year={1990},publisher={goo}}
27 23:41:00 povilusr is the bib entry wrong?
27 23:41:00 auchter is it supposed to be @BOOK and not @book?
27 23:42:00 povilusr both work
27 23:43:00 auchter well then, i'm not sure. the last time i used it was sometime last year
27 23:58:00 povilusr do you have any that do compile using bib files like that?
28 00:03:00 auchter no, i didn't save any of my files from that wretched class (rh131)
28 00:03:00 auchter perhaps you can find an example somewhere online?
28 00:07:00 Blazeix Check out the new xkcd comic: http://xkcd.com
28 00:08:00 Blazeix suitable topic for this channel
28 00:12:00 Zeta_RHIT rofl
28 00:12:00 povilusr sooooooo true
28 00:20:00 Blazeix koshi: how's the repair going?
28 00:53:00 koshi was watching dane cooks new thing
28 00:53:00 koshi i just got the xp startup disc
28 00:53:00 koshi bbl
28 00:53:00 povilus-desktop anyone know how to force latex to chicago style footers?
28 00:54:00 Blazeix koshi: do you know how to fix the partition with it?
28 00:54:00 koshi i think i just need to run chkdsk
28 00:55:00 koshi bbiab
28 00:56:00 Blazeix hmm... He might have to run fixmbr and fixboot as well.
28 00:56:00 Blazeix I'll guess we'll see if he comes back with it fixed
28 10:06:00 koshi i got an xp recovery disc but it didnt give like access to dos so i couldnt run chkdsk :/
28 10:07:00 koshi im still running on live
28 10:07:00 koshi these laptops dont have floppy drives
28 10:58:00 Blazeix koshi: what did it do when you used it? Were you able to get to the "recovery console" option?
28 12:19:00 koshi :/
28 12:20:00 koshi whenever i tried to do something it just said that i dont have a hd, i tried all the options i think on the cd
28 12:20:00 koshi didnt make any progress
28 12:21:00 Morasique koshi: you tried to get in the recovery console and it said that?
28 12:22:00 koshi i didnt find a console on it :s
28 12:22:00 koshi the*
28 12:23:00 Morasique i think at some point during setup loading it says at the bottom to press R to open the recovery console
28 12:25:00 koshi k ill look at it again, i saw something about recovery in a list of selectable things but when i selected it it just said that i didnt have a hd and it just went back to the selections
28 12:25:00 Morasique i might be thinking of automated system recovery, it's been a long time since i had to do xp's recovery stuff, but that might help anyway
28 12:26:00 koshi could i just have someone look at it some time
28 12:26:00 koshi is that possible
28 12:26:00 koshi might be easier :s
28 12:27:00 koshi ill try that
28 22:33:00 zumbrujm http://forums.hamachi.cc/viewtopic.php?t=16590&highlight=upx&sid=e23fe9fc1c921d658f784154dd2bac8f
29 00:30:00 kosh1 :(
29 00:36:00 andy753421 koshii: no luck?
29 01:01:00 Blazeix auchter, did you see the email from chidanandan?
29 01:06:00 auchter Blazeix: great news indeed
29 01:07:00 Blazeix you would think she would mention something about the exam, but whatever.
29 01:08:00 auchter apparenty she did post a practice exam, but i haven't looked over it yet. too much other stuff to worry about
29 01:09:00 Blazeix Yeah, I was just reading over it, and realizing I shouldn't have skipped class on Friday.
29 01:09:00 auchter i probably shouldn't have wednesday either
29 01:10:00 auchter though wednesday was intentional, friday was less so
29 01:41:00 auchter Blazeix: all things considered, not bad on P2M2 either
29 02:00:00 Blazeix yeah, that is good. I have a feeling we'll make up any lost points during the actual implementation phase
29 18:14:00 kleinjt we still having the robotics meeting? It is awesome weather outside.
29 18:14:00 andy753421 it'll be over by 8:00
29 18:15:00 kleinjt awww.. mmmkay. I just saw some lighting too
29 18:17:00 andy753421 yea, there's tornado's a bit south of us
29 18:17:00 auchter awesome, our lights are flickering
29 18:40:00 andy753421 holy crap
29 18:40:00 andy753421 i'm switching to epiphany
29 18:41:00 andy753421 they've apparently ditched gecko =D
29 18:43:00 auchter is gnome required for it?
29 18:45:00 andy753421 probably some parts of it
29 18:46:00 auchter in that case, i'm torn
29 18:51:00 auchter midori seems interesting: http://software.twotoasts.de/?page=midori
29 19:01:00 tommost Did they switch to WebKit?
29 19:02:00 tommost 'cause Epiphany already works faster than Firefox with Gecko 1.8.
29 19:04:00 auchter http://live.gnome.org/Epiphany/WebKit
29 19:09:00 tommost So are they switching to it as the default, or is it just optional?
29 19:10:00 auchter the slashdot summary mentioned them as "switching" to it
29 19:11:00 tommost That would make sense... Gecko is supposed to have a nightmarish architecture.
29 19:11:00 tommost And WebKit is nice and lightweight.
29 19:13:00 auchter the only thing that still makes firefox my choice is vimperator, though i suppose it wouldn't be too hard to reimplement some of the same functionality on another browser
29 19:14:00 tommost For me, it's Greasemonkey, Stylish and Firebug.
29 19:15:00 tommost It's impossible to do web development without Firebug now.
29 19:15:00 auchter it does seem like it would be handy for that
29 19:16:00 TheRoot webdev kit is almost as nice as firebug.
29 19:16:00 TheRoot you don't really need the latter until you start trying to mess with javascript.
29 19:22:00 tommost Sweet... Totem can connect to MythTV.
29 20:59:00 povilus-desktop anyone got the ipsec vpn certificate?
29 23:09:00 andy753421 stupid weather..
29 23:09:00 TheRoot yeah, it's cold.
29 23:10:00 kleinjt It is awesome.
29 23:12:00 andy753421 it causes power fluctuations
29 23:13:00 kleinjt My houseplant is unhappy, it was just recovering from having the blinds closed for half a week without water.
29 23:14:00 auchter so far the fluctutions here have been minor.
29 23:15:00 auchter but the drive tomorrow will be excellent, considering it was 55 and raining earlier, and now it's 14.
29 23:16:00 kleinjt just sleep on the couch in the CS lab
29 23:17:00 kleinjt Actually, a tent in the CS lab would be pretty cool
29 23:17:00 TheRoot truth, those couches are awesome.
29 23:17:00 kleinjt There should be a tent for group meetings
29 23:18:00 auchter rather, there should be a constant supply of free food in the cs lab
29 23:21:00 tommost And a caffeine IV?
29 23:22:00 tommost (auchter)
29 23:26:00 kleinjt if not tents, at least cots.
30 01:10:00 auchter power troubles?
30 01:12:00 andy753421 had some earlier, the last few minutes I was messing with stuff though
30 01:12:00 andy753421 i can't seem to get serial terminal login to work
30 01:14:00 andy753421 on the bright side, i upgraded my server to 2.6.24, but i don't think it really helps with anything
30 01:15:00 auchter you are using a null modem cable, right?
30 01:15:00 andy753421 i think so, all I know is that it's a female to female serial cable
30 01:16:00 andy753421 interesting..
30 01:17:00 andy753421 i stole it from the robotics lab, and i just went to look at it to see if there was any writing on it
30 01:17:00 andy753421 there's a bunch of numbers/letters, and the words "Space Shuttle" printed along the cable
30 01:17:00 auchter strange indeed
30 01:17:00 auchter if you have a multimeter, you could check the continuity between pin 3 on one end and pin 2 on the other...
30 01:22:00 andy753421 does "5U AWM E101344 2464 VW-1 80°C 300V 24AWG SPACE SHUTTLE CSA LL80671 AWM II A/B 80°C 300V FT1" mean anything too you?
30 01:22:00 andy753421 and no, don't have a multimeter
30 01:28:00 auchter well, the individual conductors are 24AWG...
30 01:28:00 auchter it's not likely to tell me anything useful, since that's just what's on the cable. it says nothing about how the connectors are wired
30 01:29:00 andy753421 ok, oh well, i'll worry about it later
30 11:38:00 zumbrujm hey guys, the chmod command modifies the file permissions, right/
30 11:38:00 zumbrujm ?
30 11:40:00 auchter yes, on a normal file system
30 11:40:00 auchter if you're talking about afs, you use the fs command
30 11:40:00 zumbrujm what is the proper usage on Ubuntu?
30 11:40:00 zumbrujm I'm trying to get Matlab to work
30 11:44:00 auchter it depends on what you need to do
30 11:45:00 auchter but chmod is what you want to use to change permissions
30 11:47:00 andy753421 zumbrujm: generally 'chmod <mode>' where mode is something like 755, or smething like 'chmod a+x' where 'a+x' describes some change to the permissions (in this case giving all users execute permission)
30 11:47:00 andy753421 chmod -R is also useful
30 11:48:00 TheRoot yay, recursive versions of commands.
30 11:48:00 zumbrujm okay, thank you
30 11:49:00 zumbrujm the folder off of tibia for matlab contains an executable file that seems to work when run in terminal. How do I run it in terminal as super user?
30 11:49:00 TheRoot prepend "sudo" to the command.
30 11:50:00 zumbrujm Yes, but what is the command to run the file. I just tried double clicking on the icon which is not a very good way to do it.
30 11:51:00 TheRoot it's an exe?
30 11:51:00 zumbrujm it's a "shell script"
30 11:51:00 TheRoot ah. you've got me there, then.
30 11:52:00 TheRoot I'm probably the least experience guy in here. -_-
30 11:52:00 zumbrujm nope, that would be me :P
30 11:52:00 TheRoot laughs. oh well.
30 11:52:00 TheRoot andy753421, auchter, someone want to clear up my ignorant and bad advice here?
30 11:53:00 zumbrujm When I double click on the icon it gives me an option to run in terminal which gives me a wizard like in windows, but it is not the superuser account, so it's useless.
30 11:53:00 crr open up a terminal
30 11:53:00 zumbrujm ok
30 11:53:00 crr cd to the directory that contains it
30 11:53:00 zumbrujm done
30 11:53:00 crr go "sudo <filename>"
30 11:54:00 crr or rather, "sudo ./<filename>"
30 11:54:00 crr (my mistake)
30 11:54:00 zumbrujm ah
30 11:54:00 zumbrujm crr: Thank you very much. That works much better
30 11:55:00 crr any time
30 12:34:00 auchter heh, sorry my network cable came unplugged and i just now noticed
30 14:45:00 auchter just thought of another possibility for a presentation
30 14:46:00 auchter a survey of version control systems (svn, git, hg, cvs, etc.)
30 14:50:00 tommost Excellent idea.
30 15:09:00 tommost Is there a planned presentation?
30 15:11:00 auchter jon was talking about doing something, but i'm not sure if he is for sure
30 15:11:00 auchter brb, need coffee.
30 15:25:00 auchter back.
30 15:25:00 auchter i suppose i could email him and see if he's still going to give one, but if not i don't know if anyone else would
30 15:37:00 tommost Perhaps you should.
30 19:20:00 povilusr_kaaba anyone got the ipsec vpn key?
30 19:23:00 bolandmg My God, we need to use Moodle. From what I see it looks a lot better than Angel, plus it's open source.
30 19:24:00 koshiie im trying to install apache on ubuntu but when i try to compile files in terminal it gives me an error that says c compiler cannot create executables
30 19:24:00 Morasique bolandmg: yeah, we had this conversation at some point, it does look a lot better
30 19:24:00 bolandmg Yeah, I was talking to Auchter about it and he said someone on here had mentioned it.
30 19:24:00 andy753421 koshiie: why are you compiling it yourself?
30 19:25:00 koshiie that's all i could find on the apache site :s
30 19:25:00 andy753421 koshiie: are you using ubuntu?
30 19:25:00 bolandmg Can't you apt-get apache?
30 19:25:00 Morasique koshiie: synaptic has it
30 19:25:00 koshiie http://httpd.apache.org/download.cgi
30 19:25:00 koshiie k
30 19:26:00 andy753421 koshiie: generally in linux, when you don't have to go find things to install, someone else already found them for you :)
30 19:26:00 andy753421 almost everything is available from apt, or whatever the distro's package management system is
30 19:27:00 koshiie k thanks
30 19:29:00 bolandmg I was thinking about buying a domain and some hosting to get a domain to hold my various brain doodles, so if I get around to that I'll probably try to get Moodle running on there.
30 19:30:00 tommost There's an Ubuntu package for it. ;-)
30 19:31:00 bolandmg haha pleasant
30 19:31:00 tommost Ick... PHP.
30 19:32:00 bolandmg I don't like PHP that much but it is widely supported
30 19:33:00 andy753421 i would have to say, it tends to be much easier to install PHP websites than to install python/ruby websites
30 19:33:00 bolandmg yeah, but I love Django so much
30 19:33:00 tommost Yay! Django party.
30 19:33:00 tommost dances!
30 19:34:00 tommost And actually, it was quite easy to set up under mod_python.
30 19:34:00 tommost Ruby (on Rails) is supposed to be a pain, though.
30 19:34:00 andy753421 tommost: what was?
30 19:35:00 andy753421 tommost: I know I had many many headaches trying to get plone working once
30 19:35:00 tommost Django. http://djangoproject.com/
30 19:35:00 bolandmg I worked on a project at Ventures that used Django so that's how I found it
30 19:35:00 bolandmg I'm planning on writing some image board software in it
30 19:36:00 bolandmg (like a *chan type site)
30 19:37:00 tommost Have you seen sorl.thumbnail?
30 19:38:00 bolandmg no I haven't
30 19:38:00 tommost http://code.google.com/p/sorl-thumbnail/
30 19:38:00 tommost Might be useful.
30 19:39:00 tommost I'm currently working on rewriting the Thorn's web site in Django.
30 19:39:00 bolandmg oh, sweet delicious Django
30 19:40:00 tommost Yes... yes indeed.
30 19:41:00 tommost I may also do the Robotics club's web site in Django, just because I can.
30 19:41:00 bolandmg good times
30 19:42:00 bolandmg yeah I came up with the idea of starting an image board and Auchter's been really into it lately so I think if I ever have the time I'll get a server set up and start messing with it
30 19:42:00 tommost A public board? Or just for Rose?
30 19:42:00 bolandmg I think there's an old computer at my parents' house that's not being used, I could put Linux on that and just keep it somewhere on campus
30 19:43:00 bolandmg I had thought about both
30 19:44:00 tommost I've been trying to create an LDAP authentication module so that I could have people use their Kerberos credentials.
30 19:45:00 bolandmg actually I might still have access to the source directory for CLEO and that has that, but I forget how it's implemented
30 19:45:00 tommost CLEO?
30 19:45:00 bolandmg www.rose-hulman.edu/cleo I think it is
30 19:45:00 bolandmg yeah
30 19:45:00 bolandmg the admin panel uses Kerberos login
30 19:45:00 tommost Is that Django?
30 19:46:00 bolandmg no but I think the login was really simple
30 19:46:00 bolandmg let me see if I can still access that directory
30 19:46:00 tommost Yeah, it should be simple conceptually.
30 19:46:00 tommost The issue is that my test script just won't work.
30 19:47:00 Morasique apache has modules for kerberos login or ldap login, is there a reason you're not using those?
30 19:47:00 tommost I want to be able to populate the Django User object with information from LDAP.
30 19:48:00 Morasique ah. ok
30 19:50:00 andy753421 tommost: my guess is it's because Rose signs their own certs
30 19:50:00 andy753421 is it ldaps?
30 19:50:00 tommost Yes.
30 19:51:00 tommost My error: ldap.OPERATIONS_ERROR: {'info': '00000000: LdapErr: DSID-0C090627, comment: In order to perform this operation a successful bind must be completed on the connection., data 0, vece', 'desc': 'Operations error'}
30 19:51:00 tommost Not the same as: ldap.CONNECT_ERROR: {'info': 'Error in the certificate.', 'desc': 'Connect error'}
30 19:54:00 andy753421 tommost: what code are you using?
30 19:54:00 tommost Still, I can try resolving the certificate error on the machine producing the latter error to see if I get a different result.
30 19:54:00 tommost I'll post it... just a sec,.
30 19:55:00 Morasique tommost: i don't know python, but usually the ldap bind error means you're not giving it a valid username/password to authenticate with
30 19:55:00 tommost http://dpaste.com/33223/
30 19:56:00 tommost The first error doesn't come at the bind, but at the search.
30 19:57:00 tommost The latter error comes at line 10: start_tls_s()
30 19:57:00 tommost (The _s on the end of the method names means synchronous.)
30 19:58:00 andy753421 yea, ithink that's a certificate problem, it works fine for me
30 19:59:00 tommost Hmm. Well, how would I go about resolving it, then?
30 19:59:00 andy753421 also, your filter is strange
30 19:59:00 andy753421 let me look for the python way
30 20:00:00 tommost I think that it's based on what's used for the GPG key repository.
30 20:01:00 andy753421 hey wait, i thought you said it was ldaps?
30 20:02:00 tommost It is. conn.start_tls_s() does that.
30 20:02:00 andy753421 that doesn't make any sense, you're connecting on the wrong port
30 20:03:00 tommost I tried a bunch of different combinations... this was the only one that didn't fail on the bind.
30 20:04:00 tommost My shift is over... I'll be right back in a couple of minutes.
30 20:05:00 koshiie what would i install to get apache :s
30 20:06:00 andy753421 koshiie: search for apache or httpd
30 20:06:00 koshiie why are there so many packages
30 20:06:00 koshiie i get a bunch of packages when i search either
30 20:07:00 koshiie apache2.2-common?
30 20:13:00 andy753421 http://dpaste.com/33224/
30 20:13:00 andy753421 koshiie: I'm not sure, I don't use ubuntu
30 20:13:00 andy753421 my guess is not -common though
30 20:13:00 andy753421 that sounds like various runtime files
30 20:14:00 andy753421 tommost: http://dpaste.com/33224/
30 20:16:00 tominabox what up dudes
30 20:16:00 tominabox need some help
30 20:16:00 tominabox plz
30 20:16:00 tominabox if anybody is in here...
30 20:17:00 andy753421 tominabox: yep, don't ask to ask, just ask ;)
30 20:17:00 tommost Thanks, Andy.
30 20:17:00 tominabox nice, is im trying to install maple 10 and im getting an error
30 20:17:00 tominabox oh im on ubuntu 7.10 btw
30 20:17:00 tominabox lemme get the error for you quick
30 20:18:00 tominabox grep: error while loading shared libraries: libc.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory/home/tom/install.dir.7637/Linux/resource/jre/bin/java: error while loading shared libraries: libpthread.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
30 20:19:00 andy753421 tominabox: did you try http://lug.phire.org/index.php/Maple ?
30 20:19:00 andy753421 that's a pretty old page, i don't know if that information is still valid though
30 20:20:00 tominabox i swear that wasnt there 2 seconds ago
30 20:20:00 andy753421 tominabox: heh, yea, it's listed under the course software page
30 20:24:00 tominabox no permissions in that folder...
30 20:24:00 tominabox where i apply the patch... chown isnt the command i want
30 20:27:00 tominabox nevermind now I get this error when trying to patch: patch: **** write error : No space left on device
30 20:29:00 andy753421 tominabox: is your disk full?
30 20:29:00 tominabox andy753421: legitamate question, but no
30 20:30:00 andy753421 what does 'df -h' say? and where are you running patch from?
30 20:31:00 tominabox Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on/dev/sda6 4.8G 4.6G 21M 100% /varrun 506M 92K 506M 1% /var/runvarlock 506M 0 506M 0% /var/lockudev 506M 108K 506M 1% /devdevshm 506M 0 506M 0% /dev/shmlrm 506M 34M 472M 7% /lib/modules/2.6.22-14-generic/volatile/dev/sda7 26G 1.4G 23G 6% /home/dev
30 20:31:00 tominabox trying to run from within the folder on command line, because i cant seem to copy the file, will try another way here
30 20:33:00 tominabox it says i have 20 MB of free space in that folder for some reason...
30 20:34:00 tominabox apparently my filesystem is full :P
30 20:35:00 tominabox im moving my maple10cd dir to my home part....
30 20:36:00 tominabox terminal command for move?
30 20:37:00 andy753421 tominabox: mv
30 20:37:00 quark hey auchter areyou around?
30 20:39:00 tominabox yay got it to patch...moving on
30 20:50:00 tominabox holy crap i think its working...
30 20:50:00 tominabox that was a mess
30 20:57:00 tominabox thanks for hte help andy753421
30 20:57:00 andy753421 no problem
30 21:16:00 koshiie oh :s apache was working and i didnt even have to run anything
30 21:16:00 koshiie i just installed it and it worked o_O, i was trying to find something to start it up and was getting frustrated
30 21:16:00 koshiie it was running the entire time -_-
30 21:17:00 koshiie when i try to mount tibia i get the err could not resolve mount point /mnt/tibia :(
30 21:28:00 Blazeix koshiie, you have to create the folder /mnt/tibia on your local hard drive.
30 21:29:00 Blazeix you will probably have to use 'sudo mkdir /mnt/tibia'
30 21:32:00 koshiie oh okay, i was thinking that but when i tried to do that it wouldnt allow me and i knew it was because i wasnt in root or w/e its called so i just gave up on trying that
30 21:33:00 koshiie thanks it worked
30 21:34:00 tominabox guess who's back..
30 21:34:00 tominabox what bout matlab? im getting problems launching the graphical installer
30 21:34:00 Blazeix what sort of problem?
30 21:35:00 tominabox .
30 21:35:00 Blazeix ahh, I see.
30 21:35:00 tominabox /home/tom/Desktop/MATLAB_R2007a/update/install/main.sh: 582: /home/tom/Desktop/MATLAB_R2007a/update/bin/glnx86/xsetup: Permission denied
30 21:36:00 auchter quark: i am now
30 21:36:00 Blazeix tominabox: is that after running 'install' in the matlab folder?
30 21:36:00 tominabox Blazeix: haha, yeha it wouldnt send the line for some reason.... but thats the error, and it goes on to suggest running the terminal version and it comes up with the same problem
30 21:36:00 tominabox Blazeix: yes
30 21:36:00 tominabox Blazeix: tried running as sudo and sudo su
30 21:38:00 Morasique tominabox: can you try running it directly off tibia? that works for me, i've never tried copying it before
30 21:38:00 tominabox Morasique: will try
30 21:41:00 tominabox Morasique: needs to have +x permissions on the install file... lemme try a different version
30 21:41:00 tominabox how do you go back one directory in terminal?
30 21:41:00 Morasique cd ..
30 21:41:00 tominabox thanks
30 21:41:00 Blazeix tominabox: how are you accessing tibia?
30 21:41:00 tominabox Blazeix: terminal smb
30 21:42:00 tominabox smbclient
30 21:42:00 Blazeix tominabox, you should try manually mounting it, you might have more luck with that.
30 21:43:00 tominabox Blazeix: k how do i mount
30 21:43:00 Blazeix Use the "Mounting via the command line" section here ---> http://lug.phire.org/index.php/Tibia
30 21:47:00 koshiie has anyone got maple to install on ubuntu
30 21:47:00 tominabox koshiie: i did just a few minutes ago
30 21:47:00 Blazeix koshiee, I just went through the steps as well.
30 21:48:00 koshiie yeah i tibia like 15m ago :p
30 21:48:00 Morasique the guide is at http://lug.phire.org/index.php/Maple
30 21:48:00 koshiie ohokay
30 21:48:00 koshiie thanks
30 21:48:00 koshiie nifty
30 21:49:00 tominabox 've got the matlab install going
30 21:50:00 tominabox if only this stuff was on the univers :P
30 21:50:00 tominabox sudo apt-get install matlab
30 21:50:00 tominabox haha
30 21:51:00 tominabox do any of you guys back up your linux system?
30 21:52:00 Morasique i back up certain things, like my schoolwork and my pidgin logs
30 21:52:00 Blazeix tominabox: I backup my documents and stuff, but not the actual system
30 21:52:00 tominabox Blazeix: Morasique you guys just tar it up or do you do something else
30 21:53:00 Blazeix tominabox: I used to tar it up, but now I use rsync
30 21:53:00 Morasique i think rsync is probably best for it
30 21:53:00 tominabox Blazeix: k, i've read about that
30 21:53:00 Morasique http://www.linuxtopia.org/online_books/linux_administrators_security_guide/05_Linux_Backup_Guide.html
30 21:53:00 tominabox i need a bigger external... i only have 80 gig
30 21:54:00 koshiie why are you so fat maple
30 21:54:00 tominabox good question...
30 22:06:00 tominabox ahhh more qs
30 22:07:00 tominabox matlab splash comes up but doest start the program...
30 22:07:00 koshiie when it says to apply maple.patch to UnixInstaller.bin does that mean to open maple.patch with unixinstaller.bin?
30 22:07:00 tominabox koshiie: make sure they are both in the same dir
30 22:07:00 koshiie i dont get how i apply it
30 22:07:00 koshiie okay
30 22:07:00 tominabox koshiie: then do this
30 22:07:00 koshiie oh i see
30 22:07:00 koshiie just run that line
30 22:07:00 tominabox patch UnixInstaller.bin < maple.patch
30 22:08:00 tominabox koshiie: of course make sure you have permissions and such
30 22:09:00 tominabox so yeah, matlab splash but no program :(
30 22:09:00 Blazeix tominabox, if you run it from the terminal do you get any error output?
30 22:09:00 Morasique tominabox: i have that problem, i need to go to the matlab directory in a terminal window and then open it and it works, i'm not sure how to fix it
30 22:09:00 tominabox of course it runs when i go from the terminal....
30 22:09:00 tominabox haha k
30 22:09:00 Morasique it's some sort of relative path problem
30 22:09:00 tominabox ahh no buttons...
30 22:09:00 tominabox i know there's a fix
30 22:10:00 Blazeix tominabox: its on the wiki
30 22:10:00 Morasique http://lug.phire.org/index.php/Matlab
30 22:11:00 tominabox how do i put that in the command line?
30 22:12:00 tominabox nevermind
30 22:23:00 koshiie i get patch command now found
30 22:24:00 Blazeix koshiee, you mean 'not' found?
30 22:24:00 Morasique koshiie: not found?
30 22:25:00 Blazeix 'patch' is in the ubuntu repositories, you can install it via synaptics or 'apt-get'
30 22:26:00 koshiie it thinks patch is a program :s
30 22:27:00 koshiie i typed patch UnixInstaller.bin < maple.patch
30 22:27:00 koshiie is it a program?
30 22:28:00 tommost Yes.
30 22:28:00 koshiie k
30 22:30:00 koshiie awesome
30 22:40:00 koshiie i don't get how we run this ""/tmp/install.dir.21887/Linux/resource/jre/bin/java" -Djava.compiler=NONE -Xmx50331648 -Xms16777216 com.zerog.lax.LAX "/tmp/install.dir.21887/temp.lax" "/tmp/env.properties.21887""
30 22:40:00 koshiie we just run it all as one line?
30 22:40:00 koshiie with quotations?
30 22:41:00 koshiie do i use quotations in the export classpath as well?
30 22:42:00 Blazeix you can run the second command with the quotations
30 22:43:00 Blazeix the first command, don't put the quotation mark before the export command, but keep the others
30 22:44:00 Blazeix on the wiki, I removed the first quotation mark from the export command, since it was incorrect.
30 22:53:00 koshiie k
30 23:08:00 koshiie :/
30 23:08:00 koshiie i get this application has unexpectedly quit when i try to run the second part
30 23:10:00 koshiie invocation of this java application has caused an invocationtargetexception. this application will now exit. (lax) stack trace: java.lang.unsatisfiedlinkerror: /tmp/install.dir.32584/Linux/resource/jre/lib/ir86/libawt.so: libXp.so.6 cannot open shared object file: no such file or directory
30 23:10:00 koshiie could it be because its on a amd64
30 23:11:00 koshiie it mentioned something about an i386 directory :s
30 23:14:00 koshiie invocation of this java application has caused an invocationtargetexception. this application will now exit. (lax) stack trace: java.lang.unsatisfiedlinkerror: /tmp/install.dir.32584/Linux/resource/jre/lib/ir86/libawt.so: libXp.so.6 cannot open shared object file: no such file or directory
30 23:15:00 koshiie when running the command after export http://lug.phire.org/index.php/Maple
30 23:18:00 andy753421 koshiie: what's 'ls /usr/lib/libXp.so*' say?
30 23:22:00 Blazeix I don't run ubuntu, but it appears that there is a libxp6 package in the repositories.
30 23:24:00 koshiie /usr/lib/libXp.so.6 /usr/lib/libXp.so.6.2.0
30 23:25:00 koshiie /usr/lib/libXp.so.6 is in teal
30 23:31:00 Blazeix koshiie, and you are running the commands that were displayed in the terminal, and not the ones straight from the wiki, right?
30 23:34:00 koshiie yes
30 23:39:00 koshiie i tried again and got the same thing :(
30 23:40:00 koshiie i mean the err
30 23:40:00 koshiie should i dl libXp.so.6 :s
30 23:40:00 Morasique i think it would be more confusing if you hadn't gotten the same thing :)
30 23:41:00 Morasique the ls you ran earlier says you do have it
30 23:41:00 koshiie well it if worked that would be good :p
30 23:41:00 koshiie i might of made a typo
31 00:27:00 Blazeix do we have a presentation for the meeting?
31 00:28:00 Morasique somebody should do one of the scripting language ones, i might have to come see those
31 00:31:00 andy753421 oh yea, wasn't that one guy going to do stupid python tricks?
31 00:40:00 Blazeix the wiki says that jon has signed up for that one
31 00:41:00 andy753421 auchter: we should be able to use the current PTU with the elphel cameras right?
31 00:43:00 andy753421 auchter: and did you decide on a computer yet?
31 00:50:00 Morasique is there a way to tell NetworkManager not to write like 300 lines in about 4 seconds to my syslog everytime i boot?
31 00:55:00 auchter andy753421: the computer specs were sent to kevin weeks ago
31 00:55:00 andy753421 auchter: can you send me a link to those?
31 00:55:00 auchter andy753421: and the PTU should work fine, but i'm just wondering how useful it is for stereo vision, or any kind of vision at all
31 00:56:00 andy753421 true, i don't know if we'd really ever want to turn the camera around much
31 00:57:00 auchter jon is the one who sent the computer specs, i don't think i have a link
31 14:33:00 quark tommost: are you the tommost that lives on speed 2?
31 15:49:00 povilus-desktop iait blows ass
31 15:50:00 Morasique really? do tell
31 15:54:00 povilus-desktop no 64 bit client
31 15:54:00 povilus-desktop for ipsec vpn
31 16:17:00 tommost quark: Yes.
31 16:48:00 auchter kleinjt: are you presenting today?
31 16:52:00 kleinjt auchter: nope, I figured I'd wait until after the scripting series, so I would not have to give as much background on python.
31 16:53:00 kleinjt auchter: I've got about half the slides finished, it is not done yet.
31 16:53:00 auchter ah, alright
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